For Discussion: Recurve vs. Straight bow

[DanaM]

Thought I would see if I could start a lively debate(arguement). Wondering how many of you think a recurve is inherently faster than a straight bow?
Please explain your reasoning for or against. I haven't made a recurve yet beyond flipping the tips a little so I will reserve my opinion.

[ZanderPommo]

I can't help but notice that a huge amount of flightbows are longbows and pyramid bows with superlight limbs

Zander

[ricktrojanowski]

My experience is pretty limited.  But I think it is hard to compare.  Logic would say a recurve would probably be faster.  But I think a well designed flatbow would shoot better than a poorly designed recurve.  Not to mention wood selection.  However all variables equal ie. wood choice and good design and build.  I would then guess that the recurve would be faster.  That sounds like a politicians answer.

[Gordon]

If the working limbs are the same length, mass and material, brace heights are equal and the tips are the same distance in front of the handle, I can't think of any reason that a recurve would shoot any faster. But I'm no expert on archery physics.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

from my experience in the several of each i have made and shot i believe that a recurve shoots faster, but it doesnt have as much to do with the flipping tips making it faster.    Its easier to draw a recurve because of the bow "lengthening" when its drawn,   and since its easier to draw you can have a heavier bow at brace compared to a straight bow.   if that make ssense?    for those who dont understand the idea behind a recurve i'll explain the best i can and hopefully someone else will chime in that explains better than I.

      a true recurve has the string touching the belly of the bow. the point where string touches the belly to the other place the string touches the belly is say  60 inches,   when you draw the bow, the string comes off the belly and touches only at the tips making its say 66" long.  so as you would know ....  if you take a bow that it 50 lbs and 66 inches long and cut 3 inches off each side, it will gain considerable poundage...same think applies for a recurve just only in reverse. so its not that it really "shoots" faster but instead allows you to theroetically draw a heavier bow which in turn shoots fasts.
      if you tied the string to the recurves of the bow and didnt allow the string to pull off the belly it would shoot the same speed but be harder to draw.  make any more sense?
also with working recurves you also add into play the idea of more working limb than a static recurve and that will also add speed because its working mass not dead mass. 
       basic physics i suppose, once you get it, it makes lots pf sense i swear...lol  I am by no means claiming to know it all, but ido understand how it works. so for my vote, i say  " a properly built recurve of the same weight and wood of a long bow will shoot faster than the longbow"  -  Ryan

[Gordon]

Hmm, you got me thinking Ryan. I wonder if the string coming tight on the belly during the release and thus abruptly shortening the effective length of the limbs (levers) somehow allows for a more efficient transfer of energy.

[Badger]

I would have to go along with Gordons answer on this one. It seems that how far the tips are in front of the back of the bow has more to do with it than recurve or not.  I believe on the average a recurve will have a bit more speed but when bows are really peeked out they seem to peek out at about the same place. Recurves store more energy than straight bows but straight bows can be more efficient in putting the energy back into the arrow, What we call d/r bows or hybrids seem to take the best from both worlds and in my opinion stay pretty close to the top. Lately I have been doing work with straight but reflexed bows and find them to be about the same speed. I guess time will tell if anyone ever gets a wood bow up to 200 fps with a 10 grain arrow and 28" draw. Both recurves and d/r bows have gone over the 190 mark allready. In the modern bow world the present speed champions are the longbows with recurves just a little behind. I know a guy up in Washington who builds modern recurves who just might bring the title back to recurves as he is very close right now. Our primitive bows have done very well competing against the best of modern bows. Steve

[michbowguy]

steve,
i thought for the longest time that flight bows just was not in the same ballpark with my selfbows....

i apologize as i find your posts to be pretty darned interesting!

the recurves i make seem to be more..."sensitive" to heat and moisture and by keeping the tips light and fast, sometimes they just go off track sometimes, so i then ake them thicker and they slow down.

so, i just flip the tips and leave it at that, plus they are easier for me to make and TRUST giving and selling them off ya know...

anyway, keep us informed about the "duel on the sands".

jamie b.

[DanaM]

Good responses guys, My own thinking on the matter is that a well designed flat bow with with some added reflex and kicked up tips is
not only easier to build and tiller properly but also easier to shoot therefore more accurate. With recurves if their overly long I have to believe the extra mass at
the ends of the limbs negates any performance gained from the recurves. Been reading up in the TBB on this subject and I found it interesting that the MOJAM
tests showed that a Pecan board long bow out shot all comers. Also find it interesting that the front view profile of a bow should dictate the tiller and hence the mass placement. Too often I find myself commenting on someones tiller that it should bend more into the fades but this is not always the case.

I'm looking at buying a chronograph just for my own little experiments, speed is not everything but a chronograph may help me comprehend some of the theories better.
Anyone have a recommendation as to a chrono or they all the about the same? Looking at the one in 3 Rivers for $118

[ricktrojanowski]

Dana I bought one from a dealer on EBAY.  It was about 75 bucks brand new in the box. 

[Ranger B]

I think Pappy and some others at Twin Oaks did an experiment one time with recurve arrow speed and found that the recurve did not increase speed with more recurve in the tips but not sure of a straight up comparison with a long bow.  Clearly, the recurve draws easier thus allowing for more accurate shooting, but something else to consider is the degree of center shot.

If we compare store bought longbow and recurves the recurve will be center shot.  If the bow is center shot the arrow will have less archer's paradox to go through.  The more lateral movement the arrow has to go through the slower forward acceleration of the arrow.  So if you compare two bows with the aforementioned specs being the same you would also have to consider the degree to which the bow is center shot.  All things being equal I think they are close but since a recurve is never built quite the same I think you'll find that most recurves shoot faster.
Jimmy

[Ryano]

Horse a piece Dana. My fastest bows to date have been deflex reflex longbows but I still like the Shootability of my recurves. To me its more about making a short length bow that shoots like a longer one.

[DanaM]

Recurves in a short bow=good, recurves in a long bow=bad does that kinda sum it up

[JackCrafty]

Recurves put more stress on the mid-limb.  Therefore, the mid-limbs of recurves tend to be wide and flat....a very efficient design.  I think it's this efficiency that might give recurves an edge overall.

I've read a couple engineering articles that show that working recurves store more energy than straight bows, but only with perfect materials...and we all know that wood is not perfect.

And I agree that recurves are best for short bows.....it reduces stack.  Long bows don't stack, or they shouldn't anyway.

[Justin Snyder]

speed is not everything but a chronograph may help me comprehend some of the theories better.

And that my firend is the important part of these threads.  It isn't as important that we find out which bow is really faster, but that we learn. A good discusion with open minds goes a long way. Comparing styles can be a lot like comparing weights...... real difficult.  It would be easy to say that a heavier bow will outshoot a lighter one, but it isn't always true.    I think an ugly efficient bow will outshoot a pretty inefficient one, but that is as brave as I dare get.