"you can't make a bow from that"

[sonny]

Pat made that statement with regards to Dan's locust sapling bow, which made me wonder where we get our notions about what will or won't make a bow...
when I got started making bows I read through TBB vol1 from front to back and while there's some very good info in there I'm not sure I believe it all (stated with all due respect to those who wrote chapters therein!!)
for instance- the only one that comes to mind presently- in the chapter about bow design and performance it is suggested that a hickory flatbow of X length should have limbs of 1-3/4" width, when I have a buddy that made several hickory bows that were no wider than 1". granted the wood that he used for those bows was exceptional!!
My point being that my buddy hasn't read TBB vol1 so he had no preconceived notion that it shouldn't/ wouldn't work. 


Please keep in mind that this thread is not about hickory bows but is about our notions of what it takes to make a good wooden bow.

OK, so simply stated, and with no intention of starting an argument, let's hear about stuff you don't necessarily feel is right, though you've heard it stated or read it.
Also, please give examples of bows that supposedly wouldn't work but did.

 
   

[sonny]

the following stated in a reply so it doesn't get confused in the post above...
I don't recall having read it anywhere but have heard it stated that osage sapwood should always be removed. well I cut a nice osage tree back in December, promptly took it to a buddy's to split and store it. He and I discussed what we'd like to make from the wood and at some point we wondered out loud why the sapwood had to be removed.
He subsequently made a half sapwood half heartwood narrow D bow that shoots well and holds an inch or so of reflex after relaxing for an hour or so. I can only assume that what I heard about osage sapwood needing to be removed is not really true.....

[Pat B]

Ask KOAN about the osage, half sapwood/half heartwood bow I sent him for the Christmas Trade last year! It shot better than a similar bow I made using all heartwood.   I have used sapwood of osage, mulberry with good results and now after Dan's fabulous locust sapling bow, I will try locust. Maybe that will be the ticket to keep me from fretting locust!    Pat

[NTProf]

Interesting picture in TBB 4 (p. 49) of someone who made a bow out of white pine (he apparently did not know that "you can't make a bow from" white pine).

[koan]

Yep Pat its awesome...but cant really judge fairly with 1 bow, sooo....somebody send me another half sapwood, half heartwood osage bow to compare .
 Ya, I know watcha mean..I think most of us have built a few from kiln dry wood wich use to be a no no.lol....We break the rules of status quo bow building everyday round here, usually with great results. I think we are all just scraping the surface of the past and the future of bowyering....Brian

[DanaM]

sonny I posted a Sumac bow this month, I was told its junk wood but guess what its still shooting.
I like trying different woods ya never know until ya try eh

[Kegan]

Prejudices can be intertwined with instructions because the writer is giving you ALL of his opinions on how to manufacture the weapon anyway. If he had tried to make an ELB from ash, and inmmediately strung it up like he would have with yew and Osage, the bow would take too much set. We know that now. Likewise, if we rush bows trhough tillering, or don't design them rpoperly, the sapwood would provide a spot for the bow to break. Personally, I think leaving the sapwood intact is fine- it insures one ring and simply reduces the mass of the piece. Since many of us use less dense woods anyway, why should it make that big a difference? I think if one goes slowly enough, and watches the bow as it forms, then the chances of its survival, and power, greatly increase.

Anyway, there's only one way to know for sure, and that's to try. If it fails, oh well.

[loco cacahuate]

I was given a black ash stave and from everything I've read on it, its supposed to be one of the worst bow woods.
Although it will be my first stave bow, I thought what the heck go for it.
Right now I've almost got it to the floor tiller stage so we'll see.

[sonny]

Prejudices can be intertwined with instructions because the writer is giving you ALL of his opinions on how to manufacture the weapon ......

Well said Kegan!
unfortunately I tend to believe whatever's said to be true without testing it's validity.

[Pat B]

For many years all I had to learn from and to assist me with building bows was what I could read...and I read most of the books out there. As far as I was concerned it was all gospel because it was from the guys that were actually making their own bows of wood. Paul Comstock's book, "The Bent Stick" gave life it building bows from "other" woods besides yew and osage and Tim Baker brought to light that many other woods could and should be used for bows. The only way to find out is by doing what Tim did...make bows from every possible wood available. Look how far wood bow archery has come from the days when these guys began their quests. Many folks out there don't have access to osage or yew or mulberry or locust but almost everyone out there has some kind of wood growing near them or has an available source. With a proper design for the wood you have available to you, you can make a good bow.   But you have to try first!     Pat

[El Destructo]

sonny I posted a Sumac bow this month, I was told its junk wood but guess what its still shooting.
I like trying different woods ya never know until ya try eh

Yep.....and I shot it...and it was a nice  Shooting Bow too...... was a lot more Bow than I was expecting from Sumac!! I have a Paddle Bow made from Poplar....they said was not going to work either....and it still shoots fine after 3 years and hundreds of Arrows....and is still 45 pounds at 28 inches

[Dano]

What's the saying? "Don't believe what you read and only believe half of what you see" I guess it all depends on whos doing the writing. These are great bowyers, we're talking about, they did set down some pretty good guidence.

[Justin Snyder]

Well I made a paddle bow of willow and it wasn't hardly worth burning. It must have taken 8 Inches of set by the time I tillered it to 6 inches.  So that one is confirmed.  Justin

[bootboy]

I've made three longbows from kilndried pine, after getting the idea from Thimo.

[Papa Matt]

Kegan~


Your example below, is exactly what I am planning to do-make and ELB from a 74" White Ash stave. What did you mean exactly by it?

"If he had tried to make an ELB from ash, and inmmediately strung it up like he would have with yew and Osage, the bow would take too much set."

I want to be sure and not do it, whatever it is. Can you explain?

~~Papa Matt