Discussion: Survival

[Marc St Louis]

I was thinking about life up here and how nearly all the natives hunt with compounds or rifles, mostly rifles.  The idea of hunting with their traditional gear just does not interest them.  Why?  Because they are not playing at survival.  When they go hunting it's because they need food and they use the tool that will do the best and quickest job possible, usually a gun.  The only ones that may consider using traditional hunting gear are the ones that are fairly comfortable and not living on the edge of survival.  I have had many locals look at my bows and arrows but never has one of them expressed any interest in using one for hunting.  Some have bought some for decorative purposes but that is it.  There are the odd ones that use compounds for hunting but those are pretty rare. 

What do you all think?

[JackCrafty]

It's funny, but most people make fun of someone who has "gone primitive"....or at least we get funny looks.  I can just imagine the looks I would get if I dressed myself dressed myself up like Otzi and ventured onto a hunting lease with the "camo crowd".

Same thing for people with NA heritage?  It's probably due to embarrassment and social acceptance more than anything.  It's a shame really.

[Bent Rig]

that's a good question , , like one said you get funny looks when you tell someone your building and using a primitive bow . The compounds they make today are in thick woods as lethal as a gun out to 50 yds and at the high end cost more . If it's easier in this modern world - that's what people do - most are too busy with the way they live - so if it's relatively easy -that's perfect for most - technology & the cutting edge . But hopefully when there in it long enough their ideas on how to hunt will change . It's not always all about the harvest - but the quality of the hunt. 

[JackCrafty]

I wonder how many people actually hunt to survive (these days)?  Hunting is time consuming and expensive....not to mention the time it takes to process the meat.  And if you don't have a source where you can buy the meat, I wonder if you would have the ability to refrigerate?

If it's a matter of survival, you're right Marc, using anything but a rifle would be silly....and more difficult.

[mullet]

  It's funny you brought this up. Somebody on this site, I forgot who, sorry. Was impressed that I have killed 21 hogs since the end of December. But when I hunt hogs to put tender meat in the freezer, I use a 30-06, 3 1/2" 12gauge or my 44mag pistol. I can shoot 3 or 4 nice small sows in a day or more. When I hunt with my bow for hogs, it's for fun. I still kill hogs with a bow, but I can't be as selective when it comes to playing God.

[Marc St Louis]

  It's funny you brought this up. Somebody on this site, I forgot who, sorry. Was impressed that I have killed 21 hogs since the end of December. But when I hunt hogs to put tender meat in the freezer, I use a 30-06, 3 1/2" 12gauge or my 44mag pistol. I can shoot 3 or 4 nice small sows in a day or more. When I hunt with my bow for hogs, it's for fun. I still kill hogs with a bow, but I can't be as selective when it comes to playing God.

Exactly

[hawkbow]

Hunting for survival is fortunately not something most of us will ever have to experience..But testing our skills and our ability to survive with primitive weapons and ancient gear sure does bring about an awareness of who we truly are and what we as individuals are made of.. besides brother it sure is fun! Hawk a/ho   

[Kegan]

I've thought on the matter of survival, and how the bow plays into that, for a while now. Here are my thoughts so far.

The bow is actually a very advanced weapon. It requires tuning, proper construction, and care in practicing. It really would be the most efficient weapon for survival- it's made from the materials at hand, easily rixed, quiet, deadly, accurate, and replaceable- but requires alot of devotion. A rifle does not. Also, you owuld have to make compromises in design. Though recurves are great, you won't want one for survival- and no handles, rests, silencers, terrific casts (like Marc's reflexed statics), or fancy colors. You'll pretty much get a bent stick, a few crude, pointy arrows, and nothing fancy. Along with these compromises though, you also have to work ,much harder at actually developing the skills necessary- which means other skills (like pottery, tanning, shelter construction, cooking, and medicinal plants) will likely get the back burner. Meaning your life would probably be more rough and hrader than otherwise, with pretty much no downtime. You would be living very much like a wolf, which menas you have to go a while without a food frequnetly and will be travelling/hunting alot.

It's not the life most would want to pursue, because it requires much more than we're used ot giving up. However, for some this life would be the best choice in tmers of actual survival. You would worry about less, make and carry less, and would be able to spend almost all your time hunting.

Of course, survival with a rifle always makes me wonder, "what will you do when you run out of bullets?" If you're able to buy them, is it really the same sort of survival? Anyway...

[JackCrafty]

Kegan, you raise some interesting points.  But I have to disagree with you on the crude weapons for survival theory.

For many of us, our hobby is something that essential to the survival or our sanity.  Would crude, basic, and "ugly" bows and arrows be worthy of the vital role they play in preserving our sanity?  I think not.  Only the best will truly satisfy...a only the best weapons will truly be reliable when it matters most.

[Marc St Louis]

This is not a recent thought that I have had but a recurring one that has comes back to mind over the years. 

I know that having the knowledge to make your own bows and arrows gives one a certain freedom.  So does having the ability and knowledge to make your own bullets

[mullet]

  Marc, you are right . I've had this discussion with quite a few people that don't hunt. They know that I chip points, start fire with "sticks" and make bows and Atlatl's. Along with play with making cordage and pottery. If the world goes down the Tube they all said that they would like to come stay with me.
  I also hunt Blackpowder and recently got into Flintlock. It's not hard to make bullets or shoot rocks if you had too with those guns.

[Badbill]

Well, being a native that lives on "or really close to" the reservation, I can tell you that most of the people I know don't want to use anything less than a firearm.  The reason being that it requires more effort to use, with less chance of success.  Its not so much about the hunt anymore as it is about the trophy or bringing home a lot of meat.  Those that I have shared my love of making bows just look at me strangely, and say "Oh interesting", with a strange look on their faces. Then of course I always got that strange look, so don't blame the primitive archery.

[Marc St Louis]

  Marc, you are right . I've had this discussion with quite a few people that don't hunt. They know that I chip points, start fire with "sticks" and make bows and Atlatl's. Along with play with making cordage and pottery. If the world goes down the Tube they all said that they would like to come stay with me.
  I also hunt Blackpowder and recently got into Flintlock. It's not hard to make bullets or shoot rocks if you had too with those guns.

Not that hard to make gunpowder either

[mullet]

    You are right there Marc. Charcoal, Sulfur, and saltpeter. But from talking with older friends of mine that grew up doing it. The hard part is getting a consistant, ground ,size.

   Badbill, It seems like Native american, or Joeblow redneck; It doesn't sound much different. There are  only so many "Romantics" to go around . Or if it makes everybody feel better , Kids that won't grow up.

[Badbill]

Mullet, I don't mind being either of those.