data on the Mary Rose bows/arrows

[backgardenbowyer]

Does anyone know where some detailed data on the Mary Rose bows and arrows is published?  I'm not talking about the selective and second hand scholarship in Harvey et al but a proper analysis of the measurements and description of the finds.  It must be around somewhere but despite internet searches and having access to on line journals through working in a university I can't find anything other than material whose primary interest is to develop a mathematical model for archery performance.  I've seen the finds on display in the museum and even handled one of the arrows, but it surprises me that there isn't a data set available with all the dimensions.

I've been very disappointed with Hardy and Strickland's The Great Warbow which despite being published nearly 15 years after the finds has pratically no new information to offer.

Any suggestions?

Stan

[nick1346]

There is soon to be published a journal on the armamnets finds. However I know from a few emails that the curator is having problems putting in all the information on the bows and arrows, so it could be patchy.

[backgardenbowyer]

Thanks Nick,

It's very odd that there hasn't been more when there has been so much interest in the bows.

Stan

[nick1346]

Well interesting to us maybe, but when you compare it cannons and the amount of money they've thrown at that...

[D. Tiller]

Cannons, shmanons! Its the bows!!! Show us the BOWS!!!! 

[bow-toxo]

It is a shame that after so many years there is so little data available and so little co-operation from the Mary Rose Trust in answering even what I would consider easy questions. Many years ago when yew was plentiful, I made up a yew longbow to the measurements of one brought up by divers before the Mary Rose was raised. with the lengths of bow and arrows to my size as in the Roi Modus instructions. It worked fine. The measurements were given in the Badminton book on archery.

[alanesq]

I have been told on good authority that
"an extremely detailed explanations  about arrows have been in the public domain at least since 1992 (my copy of R Hardy, Longbow, appendix 'some technical considerations'.)  Within the volume (1992, pg 212)"

I just bought a copy of Longbow but no info in mine, so maybe it has to be a specific year ?

I have been trying to find out detailed info on the arrow lengths for some time, but so far no luck :-(

[SimonUK]

I've had the same problem. I even sent the Mary Rose museum an email which was totally ignored.

[backgardenbowyer]

Well there you are, it seems no one wants to tell us anything.  There is the added complication that a curator or archaeologist would measure an arrow or even a bow differently to an archer.  Such arrow lenghts as I've seen published are probably the overal lenght of the artifact rather than the length from the inside of the nock to the socket of the head.  I've seen figures of 31.5" as a typical arrow length.  Given the long cone on these shafts for the large warheads I think that equates to a drawable lenght of an absolute maximum of 30" probably not much more than 29".  I have a suspicion that draw lengths were not as long as some people have suggested.

Stan

[Cromm]

Hi,
I know from a guy who is friends with some of the Mary Rose curator's, that the head lady of the place is so scared that someone else will put in print info on the bows and arrows before they do that she has everything under lock and key...........But that's just what he said.......So make up your own minds on it.....
Thanks for your time..

[scattershot]

I have suspected for a long time that the "clothyard shaft" referred to in literature was actually 28", not 36 as currently thought. Can't find any reference to that measurement, though. Can anyone shed light on this?

[D. Tiller]

Saw some research in the book "The Englishwarbow" that mentioned the long draw length made for a superior bow with a very good F/D curve while the 28" draw was not using the wood to its full effectivness. I have made some bows both at 28" and 30" drawlengths and the longer draw shoots a heavy arrow much better than the shorter draw length. Even if the arrow flys a bit slower than other bows with shorter arrows it has much more power behind it! I was punching half way through targets that others with shorter lighter arrows with faster speeds were just pricking and sticking!!!! Thats power!!! 

[bow-toxo]

I have suspected for a long time that the "clothyard shaft" referred to in literature was actually 28", not 36 as currently thought. Can't find any reference to that measurement, though. Can anyone shed light on this?

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The 3 foot yard was standardized in the reign of Richard lionheart/John Lackland. Iron bars of this standard length were distributed around England for measurement of cloth and were called clothyards. This measurement, also called an ell, wae the clothyard. It also came to be used to measure land. In the 16th century Paulus Jovius reported that the English shoot arrows somewhat thicker than a man's little finger and two cubits long with barbed steel points. A cubit is the length from elbow to fingertips. Try it. It's a yard.Cornish rebel archers were reported to shoot arrows of "a full yard". It would take a really long bow to take that draw. A 6'11" bow was foound on the Mary Rose. That would be long enough. I believe the English Board of Trade considers the clothyard to have been 37 inches. I could quote other examples.

[scattershot]

Thanks, Bow-Toxo. That's great info, and just what I was looking for. The reference I was looking for and can't find was in regard to the Flemish cloth yard, but your explanation makes more sense. I'm still having trouble envisioning a medievel archer of fairly small stature (compared to today's man) drawing a 36" arrow "full to the barb", as they say, fom a 100 lb+ bow.

[Yeomanbowman]

I believe the reference to clothyard shooting Cornish archers B.T.  is paraphrasing is from the Cornish rebellion in 1497, which would make it roughly contemporary with the Mary Rose equipment.  However, regardless of the standardisation of the clothyard the arrows found onboard were largely for a 30” draw length.  I think it would be a mistake to assume medieval/Tudor archers were routinely shooting 36” arrows.  The only modern warbow archer I know able to shoot arrows this long is about 6’6” tall.  Not may of these to the pound, either now or then!