The kiss of death, I guess

[Muskyman]

So I was thinking about flipping the tips on this bow and when I was getting ready to do it I noticed this in the limb. I’m assuming it’s a stress crack. It’s in the belly side about a foot from the tip.
It’s was going to be a trade bow but probably not any more.

[willie]

Belly side?
Does the crack raise a splinter? can you rub a cotton ball over it without catching fibers?
Did you attempt any recurving in this area?

In the pics it looks more like a tension failure than a fret which would be typical for the belly side.

[Hamish]

It looks like the type of crack you can get from bending with dry heat. When you bend wood too far and it's not hot enough this can happen.
I know you haven't flipped the tips yet, but did you induce a reflex, or straighten a kink?

[Muskyman]

I did reflex it with dry heat Hamish but any other straightening was done with steam.

It’s not been recurved Willie and yes it’s on the belly side. I can rub a cotton ball over it without catching anything.
I can rub a fingernail over it and feel nothing, it never raised any splinter on it.
I’d never noticed it before. I had taken off 3/4 inch on each end and was going to flip the tips. Had it in my caul and was putting oil on it and saw it. Stopped right there and brought it back inside the house never did heat it any today, just when I reflexed it.
If I can save it that would be great. I’ll just put the overlays on it and call it a day. Still not sure I’d want to send it out in a bow trade unless it’s for sure not an issue.
Weather I keep it or send it out in the bow trade I’m guessing soak it with thin super glue?

[willie]

looks can be decieving especially in pics..  if this is the straight limbed bow shown in http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,72579.msg1019712.html#msg1019712 
can you indicate in this pic with an arrow where exactly the defect occured along the limb?

there also appears to be a red streak extending upward from the crack near the edge of the limb in the pic above.   is there something happening between the grain there?

[Pat B]

Would you show a pic of where on the limb it is. Looks to me like a grain lifting which is unusual on the belly but if you reflexed the limb with heat that might be why it happened.  If there is enough thickness on that part of the limb you could saturate the lifted area with thin super glue and clamp it shut. Then scrape it down a bit. Just be sure you don't glue the clamp to the bow.    You could add a wrap over it for insurance.
 

[paulc]

Oh boy, that is a bummer. Hope you can save it. I hope to work on my trade bow tomorrow...

Paul

[Muskyman]

Willie I think the red streak is where I got a little carried away with the scrapper to be honest. I think it’s a little thinner there. And yes it’s the same bow. I’ll post a picture but not sure if it was the same limb I marked in red same area but could be the other limb.

Pat it’s not really lifted at the spot. I rubbed a cotton ball across it and it doesn’t grab it at all. If that’s what you’re asking basically. When I saw it I actually tried to bend backwards to see if it would move and I couldn’t see anything but I didn’t really move it much if at all.
Obviously it’s lifted but at the very least it has been sanded smooth. It must have happened when I reflexed it. I just don’t understand why I hadn’t seen it before I’ve worked on this bow a lot since I reflexed it. I’ll post some more photos
First one is a closeup with my phone

[Hamish]

+1 for Pats advice with superglue.

I don't think it's going to break anytime soon, unless you try and recurve it. That being said I personally wouldn't be happy giving it away or selling it, and it would probably be relegated to the naughty bow corner. (I would still shoot it myself though).

[willie]

either side in the pic, your limb is not bending excessively, so I doubt it is a compression fracture or fret on the belly as one would expect there.

wood sometimes has natural defects or rather stave damage, not apparent before you apply a finish

[Muskyman]

Feeling the same way Hamish. To be honest my first thought was just that. After being disappointed that is. I might end up trying to take it down past the bad area and see if it has a light weight bow in it. I’ve got a couple other staves for backup. Also one I’ve been working on..
I’m kinda bummed about it but, I’ll be better when I get the next one made.

[Hamish]

Don't worry Musky. I know someone, who might have done the exact same thing before. My ur  I mean his next bow was turned out just fine.

[superdav95]

Willie I think the red streak is where I got a little carried away with the scrapper to be honest. I think it’s a little thinner there. And yes it’s the same bow. I’ll post a picture but not sure if it was the same limb I marked in red same area but could be the other limb.

Pat it’s not really lifted at the spot. I rubbed a cotton ball across it and it doesn’t grab it at all. If that’s what you’re asking basically. When I saw it I actually tried to bend backwards to see if it would move and I couldn’t see anything but I didn’t really move it much if at all.
Obviously it’s lifted but at the very least it has been sanded smooth. It must have happened when I reflexed it. I just don’t understand why I hadn’t seen it before I’ve worked on this bow a lot since I reflexed it. I’ll post some more photos
First one is a closeup with my phone

Ya mike it’s a bummer when this happens.  Like what’s was already said it likley happened during heat induced reflex.  You probably didn’t notice it at the time as it was filled with wood dust.  I suspect that it’s one ring or two that has separated when backset induced.  I still think you may be able to put slight flipped tips if you take measures to clamp this area of separation and keep it further up then the bad spot.  I might try and take it down to next good solid ring on belly there and match both ends and then add your flipped tips or recurves to maintain your desired weight.  It looks to me from the pic that your inner fade out area on right limb looks little stiff in comparison.  Could just be the pic but seems that way.  Best of luck with it.  There could still be a bow in there!   

[Muskyman]

Dave, it’s possible it’s a bit stiff in the fade. Also there was a knot in the handle area and the limbs are not quite parallel to each other from one side of the handle to the other, if that makes sense.
At this point I may try and remove the problem area and see what happens.

Thanks for the responses and help and suggestions from everyone. I’ll post what happens with this bow and maybe try and document the process and end result for people like me who are still learning.

I have one final question I would like answered. I read somewhere, maybe on here, not sure.
Anyway, I read you don’t want to use steam for bending after you have used dry heat on a bow for bending. If I’m remembering correctly it said you could use dry heat after steaming but not steam after dry heat..   agree or disagree?

[Pat B]

I've never heard about the steam/dry heat thing but I mostly use dry heat.
 The tips look stiff so you could probably take some of the belly down on both limbs. I'd super glue the crack first, let it cure out completely then scrape the tip down a little.
 Generally the belly side is more acceptable of maladies like this. The back is more critical and a clean back is critical for a durable bow. Not so much the belly except for frets.