Author Topic: does a bow with a shelf perform better  (Read 6934 times)

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Offline Tommy D

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2022, 11:47:50 pm »
    I guess what I'm trying to say is what works for one application probably isn't the best choice for a different application. If I want to learn about performance enhanced arrows for hunting I'll refer to thre Ashby studies....if I'm learning about flight shooting and bow performance I'll refer to Arvin & Badger. JMO

Agreed on the subject of horses for courses… I didn’t realise this topic was about flight shooting - of which I know nothing about. I just thought I would mention the Extreme EFOC concept as it related to arrow penetration/ hunting because I believe Ashby has only fairly recently distinguished extreme Forward of center weight as being separately important to penetration from arrow weight per se.

It would probably also be fair to say that before the advent of light stuff carbon arrows, it would have been much harder for “traditional” bow hunters to build EFOC arrows.

One interesting thing about FOC arrows is that they also do not need such large feathers to stabilise them. I don’t know how this relates to flight shooting but at a certain point I would guess that having the smallest possible feathers needed to stabilise arrows may have some advantage in flight/ distance shooting… perhaps more so in the broadhead categories?

I always enjoyed this particular Ashby article on Extreme Forward of Center arrows  https://www.grizzlystik.com/PR/Ashby_Papua_New_Guinea_Bows_and_Arrows.pdf where he proposes that the arrival  of steel in Papua New Guinea led to a complete bow redesign from a palm bow that had probably been around for hundreds of years to a much cruder bamboo weapon but that could be built with much less center shot to allow the unfletched, much heavier 4000 grain 40 % EFOC steel tipped arrows.

Fascinating stuff!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 11:50:53 pm by Tommy D »

Offline bassman211

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2022, 11:50:42 pm »
If you experiment long enough you will find what works best for you, and your preferences be it flight shooting, or hunting. You guys have a nice thanksgiving, and pray for world peace. Things are getting crazier each day on our planet.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2022, 01:48:12 pm »
If you experiment long enough you will find what works best for you, and your preferences be it flight shooting, or hunting. You guys have a nice thanksgiving, and pray for world peace. Things are getting crazier each day on our planet.

I agree
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2022, 05:22:07 pm »
I was thinking hunting and target shooting,, but the flight shooting was very informative,,

Offline bassman211

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2022, 06:56:40 pm »
Arvin, and Steve know how to make  a champion shooting flight bow Brad. They know their stuff.  Ed, and Marc, and others make some really nice bows on this site, and share knowledge. The bows just keep getting better, and better. Nice to keep the craft alive.

Offline soy

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2022, 09:20:03 pm »
Nope
Is this bow making a sickness? or the cure...

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2022, 08:37:36 am »
One more thing. The first time I went to a flight shoot old Arvin chose to put a heavy broadhead on the front  of a Lighter arrow still with right spine. Thinking the broadhead would drag the arrow further. Boy was I wrong. It does fine till the arrow starts to fall then the forward weight pulls down causing less distance.🤠🤠🤠I’m not the sharpest tack in the box but I learn from my mistakes.🤠🤠🤠
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline BowEd

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2022, 09:52:35 am »
So in contrast at an IBA shoot some time ago I saw the disabled world record compound shooter [Matt Stutzman] shoot at an 8" balloon with an arrow at 100 yards.He participates in the paraolympics.
He's armless and draws with his feet.
The arrow arrived to pop the balloon and fell straight down onto the ground.It did'nt have enough energy to get past the balloon and stick into the target.
0 penetration from that arrow.
A feat it might be but does'nt impress me much.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 10:33:29 am by BowEd »
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2022, 12:30:38 pm »
Ed he’s a bad ass !!!! I don’t care if he had penetration he penetrated the ballon!🤠how often do folks shoot a animal at that distance. Not often.
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline BowEd

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2022, 04:48:29 am »
That's for sure,but no kill.
So was Howard Hill with a kill.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2022, 09:28:55 am »
Yes Ed but he did not pull the string with his teeth! And Howard is my hero. I don’t remember seeing a picture of Howard shooting off his knuckle. Although I’m sure he did it at some point. Why did his bows have a rest and strike plates is the question related to the original question. Does a more center shot bow perform better. Yep it will if tuned correctly.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 09:43:39 am by Selfbowman »
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline BowEd

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2022, 10:18:01 am »
Howard shot many bows off his knuckle.Always holding the bow at a slight cant.
I agree my centershot wiggle handled or cut in center shot bows do shoot more efficiently and more accurately for me.
Whether they have a shelf or not is a non factor.
A shelf on a bow is modern adaptation to primitive archery.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2022, 10:30:46 am »
Howard shot many bows off his knuckle.Always holding the bow at a slight cant.
I agree my centershot wiggle handled or cut in center shot bows do shoot more efficiently and more accurately for me.
Whether they have a shelf or not is a non factor.
A shelf on a bow is modern adaptation to primitive archery.
[/quot

I agree it is a modern adaptation to primitive archery . I wonder if the bowyers of days gone by would have used The modern methods had they been introduced at the times? Maybe they to did not feel the need. 🤠
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2022, 10:50:27 am »
They perform better for my applications. Try hanging a knuckle bow on a bow hook with an arrow nocked. Gravity wins every time. Or, try shooting a knuckle bow with no glove on your bow hand. Then add a thick glove on that hand and try again.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: does a bow with a shelf perform better
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2022, 11:25:25 am »
Good to see you posting pearly !!!
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!