Author Topic: Elm  (Read 4602 times)

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Offline BowEd

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Elm
« on: May 23, 2022, 08:28:50 am »
I picked up some elm logs today.We identified it as rock elm.A good hard elm.
The difference between rock elm and winged elm the way I see it is that the rock elm ridges ridges on the twigs are not as tall as the winged elm ridges.They are more rounded.Very small amount of heartwood in the rock elm also and winged elm does'nt.
The heartwood is almost red cedar colored.
One of these days I'll show end cuts of all these elms.

Red elm[soft elm] has a lot of dark heartwood in it.With the chinese and american elm [soft elm]with no heartwood at all.
The soft elm seems to grow to a much larger trunk than the hard elm also.
All have the same type leaves and pretty much same looking type bark.Except that the larger soft elm when mature has thicker bark than the harder elm.The hard elm seems to be more of an understory type tree also.

Been looking into the difference in all this elm too as far as soft elm and hard elm.Logical reason as in all woods mostly.
The soft elm has more lines of pores [air and thicker early wood] in the earlywood than hard elm.Much like good and poor osage with it's rings.
Here's a fresh end cut of one of the staves.Very thin early wood there.When it dries and shrinks down the early wood will be even thinner yet then.

The hard elm grows much slower.Which to me is a factor in harder woods also as a general rule.These logs were mostly gun barrel straight.

The ends were painted.Seems this wood is getting harder and harder to find.I think all are susceptible to the dutch elm disease.
For me this hard elm is the cats' ass.It's tough stuff.I'm able to make my more extreme type profile bows from it without sacrificing any durability.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 06:39:57 pm by BowEd »
BowEd
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Ed

Offline superdav95

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Re: Elm
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2022, 09:48:10 am »
Lookin like some good wood Ed!   I have a hard time finding any around here.  It’s here but not plentiful for sure. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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gutpile

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Re: Elm
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2022, 10:58:22 am »
that ought to keep you busy

gut

Offline PaSteve

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Re: Elm
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2022, 07:15:19 pm »
Looks like some excellent bow wood there.  I'm sure you'll do it justice, Ed.
"It seems so much more obvious with bows than with other matters, that we are the guardians of the prize we seek." Dean Torges

Offline BowEd

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Re: Elm
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2022, 07:47:14 am »
I'm saving a bunch of the inner bark too.Should twist it into some cords.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline PatM

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Re: Elm
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2022, 07:57:07 am »
Rock Elm is harder on average but American Elm varies to the point where it can have wood as hard or even harder.
   Rock Elm was extensively harvested for hockey sticks up here back in the day.

 Our Elms are actually rebounding quite well from  the blight.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Elm
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2022, 09:01:51 am »
Congratulations on the elm!!
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline BowEd

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Re: Elm
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2022, 02:14:04 pm »
It's definitely harder than any red elm here of which that's what I've got here mostly.
Not that red elm can't make a bow close to 50#'s but that stuff is usually overly wide then and does'nt have the snap the harder elm has.
It's pliable qualities make it good to take the bending to make furniture.Resists splitting.Overall just tough.It is supposed to have lines going across the longitudal grain that make it interlocking.
Not that it's a god send for bow wood or anything but one would have to make bows from it to know what I mean.It also takes heat treatment very well.
I'm scoring all the straight logs and then splitting.Getting more staves than I figured.Logs are straight as a gun barrel to begin with.
Bark removal is a breeze.

There's a lot more of this stuff down there where it came from.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 05:56:48 pm by BowEd »
BowEd
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Ed

Offline Will B

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Re: Elm
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2022, 03:13:25 pm »
Looking forward to seeing what you make from those staves, Ed. How long do you figure you need to let them season before starting to work on them?

Offline Deerhunter21

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Re: Elm
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2022, 04:29:50 pm »
That looks like some good wood! Nice find!
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Elm
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2022, 06:05:29 am »
I've been hollerin and looking for this hard elm for quite some time.
I'll let it dry quite a while.At least a year I'd say.It should dry faster than osage not being quite as dense.
Leaving them in a pie shape as they dry.Straight as a gun barrel type logs before scoring it to split.Hopefully that'll deter any warping.The last winged elm behaved great while drying.Leaving them outside in the tractor shed on a rack.
It's cool weather here as of lately.That's a good thing.Let it dry slowly in the beginning.It does'nt seem to be all that overly wet wood/full of sap and running out right now.
I've got some other dried staves to work with till then of course.
I make many different types bows but always seem to drift back into making self bows.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 11:59:25 am by BowEd »
BowEd
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Ed

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Elm
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2022, 12:01:13 pm »
Those are some fine looking logs  :OK
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline BowEd

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Re: Elm
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2022, 05:57:55 pm »
Thanks...It'll be fun to work with damn near perfect wood for a change.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline superdav95

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Re: Elm
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2022, 06:00:25 pm »
Hey Ed.  I just harvested some elm myself actually.  Couple nice straight logs.  I split the large one in half and scored all of them about an inch.  I debarked mine cause during the splitting on the one log the bark practically fell off anyway.  Seemed very wet under the bark.  More then usual.  I guess depending on the time of year it’s harvested has something to do with that.  I sealed up the ends and exterior of the logs and halves.  Do you debark your elm logs and or staves most of the time or does it depend time of year???  Do you always score your logs as well.  I’ve heard varying viewpoints on this but my opinion is that I’d like to see what I’m dealing with too.  It’s hard to know what you got sometimes with bark on especially with elm and hickory.  Many times I’ve been disappointed to find worm/.beetle damage under the bark of a nice straight stave.  Do you score yours and leave the bark on and seal the ends?   I’d be curious to hear and willing to learn. 
Sticks and stones and other poky stabby things.

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Offline BowEd

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Re: Elm
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2022, 10:17:30 pm »
Cool...Glad you found some elm.Was there any heartwood in it?Did the twigs have any appendges on them?

Normally I split wood into staves.Starting at one end and following the line it makes with wedges.Especially with characterish type logs.

I traveled about 600 miles for these elm staves so I wanted to get as many as possible.This elm was so straight I was'nt afraid to score it.Made sure scoring went through any knots that were there to eliminate them from the bow.

Did the same thing you did.Split it in half and got 3 staves from each half.Scoring every one.Snappnig a string line on the bark and scoring.The longitudal grain underneath was nice and straight too after debarking,and I always debark immediately fresh cut wood.I make the time to do it and always curious to know what's underneath that bark.

Splitting these normally I probably would of only gotten 2 staves per half.So I got 4 extra staves from scoring.

I rarely leave and don't leave the bark on any staves no matter what time of year I cut it.

The wood was a little wet underneath after bark removal this time.I wiped it dry/let it set a few hours in warm weather.Then shellacked it twice.
I use shellack from a quart can and apply liberally with a brush.

I use a 6' metal ruler and trace out a near perfectly straight stave.I've trimmed them up a bit with a resaw blade on my bandsaw.2.25" wide or so and 1.75 inches deep into a kind of piece of pie shape.
Previous elm staves behaved nicely so I hope these will too.

One log did have some weird superficial bug damage no deeper than 1 ring,but that's ok.No burrowing or tunnels.Just an imprint of some kind of worm.
Look forward to them getting dry.

Long ago with no supply of staves I did a quicky dry of an osage stave once.Rough cutting and filing to floor tiller shape.Taking inside house to less humidity.Weighing every other day etc.Still took me close to 6 weeks before I got a bow.

I believe lesser dense wood you could cut the time a bit shorter.I was intrigued by seeing a video about quick drying and tempering a hickory stave/bow over coals clamped to a form though.I'm wondering if that could be done with elm?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2022, 09:30:17 pm by BowEd »
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed