lenght of hunting points?

[M2A]

Hi folks. My goal as of late has been to be able to make a finished point to a pre determined size to be more consistent. Like many folks I suppose I started to knap with the intentions to make hunting points for myself. Looking at posts here and watching videos has given me the understanding most make points between 1-1.5 inches wide. Minimum legal width for me is 7/8". That's all good however I seem to miss is where anyone suggests a good lenght for points. Maybe its too simple of a question.

With all that in mind I decided to make a few just for fun at what seemed right for me. The 3 in the middle of the pic below turned out 1" wide and within an 1/8" of 2" long. Then I decided to try for more extreme lenghts. Point on the left is 15/16" equal on all sides, Looks tiny but legal and I was pretty amazed on how small a flake I needed to make it. Seems to be a real good way to conserve on resources. So then I figured I'd go big. Point on the right is just shy of 4" and 1-1/8" at the base. Its too long, I know, but was a good challenge. However It did end up a bit thicker than I wanted. Glad I tried tho because I can look at it and think yup thats overkill in lenght.

So my question any of you folks that make points to hunt with, What lenght do you try and achieve with your points? And Does it make a big difference?
thanks, Mike
IMG_4500 (2) by Mike Allridge, on Flickr                   

[Outbackbob48]

I believe it was Howard Hill that expressed the 3 to 1 style broadhead, also read the Ashby reports on arrow head penetration studys and he also  came to the 3 to 1 ratio worked the best for his self. Personally for myself I like mine just a narrow as legal possible 7/8" in Pa. but to me more important is your transiting from shaft to point, needs to be very smooth no great big lumps of hafting or glue blobs, and very very sharp. Just my .02 Bob

[bjrogg]

I’m pretty much in the same camp as outback. I think narrow is probably better than wider. Smooth transition, neat wrap.

One other thing is good flight.

The straighter they fly, the better they penetrate.

Not sure how much stock to put in what I said. Since I haven’t ever taken anything with a stone point yet, but I have shot a lot of them at my targets.

Bjrogg

PS I like the three in the middle. I might even narrow them up just a tad.

[mullet]

What they said, also with a very sharp tip.

[M2A]

Thanks Bob! So 2 5/8 long it is. Longer than I expected. 

Your a few steps ahead of me BJ. I have not hafted a point to a shaft yet. Sometimes if I make extreme examples it gives me a better understanding than just thinking about it, so thats why the end 2 examples.

Thanks folks,
Mike           

[Allyn T]

Did you happen to weigh any of them and see how many grains they are

[mullet]

The weight doesn't really matter. You will probably find that they will be light compared to steel broadheads.

[Allyn T]

It matters if he has a weight goal and in matching points

[M2A]

Never looked at the weight of any point I tried to make yet, so went down and checked it out this morning. Didnt know what to expect to be honest. From my understanding stone should be lighter, just like Mullet said. From left to right in pic 31,113,116,90,370 grains. A little heavier than I had hoped but I know they are not as thin as they maybe should be.

I'll have to try again with some different dimensions, but I agree Allyn that weight should be consistent with in a few(maybe 5-10 grains?) Lots to consider.
Mike               

[Outbackbob48]

If your using trad type bows and 20 yds and under for hunting distances 50 grain differences in weight is nothing to worry about, 99% of shooters can't tell the difference in accuracy at that distance, Precision wts. and FOC and speed are a wheely mentality thing, Haft them up and see which ones shoot best for you, resharpen and use, make real sure on the sharpness. Shot placement is crucial with all types of points, If hit in the ass with a stone point or latest new fangled head  It is still an ass hit. Bob

[mullet]

You are better off to match your weight by total weight of arrow. That way you can match lighter heads with heavier shafts. Like Bob said shooting the shorter distances and self bows, weight forward and shot placement are more important. I've always found a shaft that would match up with as point.

[M2A]

Thanks for the information Bob and Mullet. Much appreciated.
Mike 

[gutpile]

I try to keep mine at 7/8 wide 2" long for stone.. most important is trued up.. and sharp.. gut

[M2A]

Thanks for the input Gut!
Mike

[Tracker0721]

Little late to the party but I’ll chime in. I go for an inch by 2-2 1/4 inches long which seems to make a good weight. You’ve gotta remember Ashby reports are for penetrating bone. The first rule is structural integrity which bone beats stone every time so we immediately accept that none of the rest matter. You have to accept that with stone we can only take the close, broadside, quartering away hopefully shot. And I hunt with literally everything, super modern to literal sticks and stones, I’m a numbers and math nerd though and a realist.

So a 2 to 1 gets me almost 80-90 grains with obsidian, I use pine pitch glue and sinew to hold the point and taper the glue down the point so that there’s no “shelf”. It adds another 15-20 grains.  I use ocean spray shoot shafts which are naturally tapered and help with FOC (which helps with stabilizing the arrow) and that combo I’ve hunted elk with. The natives probably didn’t realize the science behind what they used but they used what worked better and it ends up the science backs it up. Those “bird points” are great at penetrating and allow the use of smaller shafts like todays micro diameter arrows which are more forgiving, add penetration, buck the wind better, and all sorts of benefits. Also uses less precious resources(knappable stone!).

In conclusion, those middle 3 look like money!! Get em sharp, put them in the vitals and they’ll kill for ya.