Tree bark as a belly material in 5-curve bows

[bownarra]

This is funny

Obviously oak has some amazing properties that have eluded all modern bowyers....I mean somebody wrote that this bow was functional....so it must have been....experience counts for nothing but a few words written by who? trumps all! Yes highly logical argument you've got there.....can't wait to see this replica you've made! Is the 227fps an average? With what weight arrows? At what drawlength? String material? Presumably you use thumb draw?

[Marc St Louis]

I hate it when someone quotes some random thing they've read or heard.

This post sounds suspiciously like posts from a recently banned member by the name of Tom Dulaney.  Even more suspicious is the fact that this Hannibal account was registered a few days after Tom was banned.  I hope I'm wrong

[Yooper Bowyer]

Don't you manually approve each new member?  I assume the associated email addresses are different. 

[hoosierf]

Rhubarb = sour celery yuk!   I’m with Jerry. It’s unsuitable for my consumption.   

[PatM]

It's definitely Tom.  Check his posts and the whole style of posting is identical.

[scp]

The book is not an amateurish hack.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Svetlana_Pankova_Masters_of_the_Steppe_The_Impact?id=W6MWEAAAQBAJ

We should not be too disrespectful of people who spend their lives in research, even if they are not experts in experimental archeology.
 

[bradsmith2010]

Ill be right back, my wife is calling,,

[scp]

I am beginning to think that Scythians had found a better way to keep the reflex or setback. I was wondering why on earth they added tree bark on the belly to the much stronger oak stave. It appears that they were pre-stressing the bow limbs. In a sense reflexing is pre-stressing the limbs in the process of bracing the bow. But the limbs can be pre-stressed by adding a lath to the belly of the core and gluing them together. It's actually easier to pre-stress such limbs by binding them together while bending both, with tendon/sinew or even just leather strips. That means pre-stressed reflexing is thousands years old. This can also explain the unusual power of rather short Scythian bows.

[HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)]

It would be simple enough to get some well dried bark strips, heat treat them, and saturate them with hide glue; then see if they have any good compressive strength or not. Anyone?

Didn't someone try to create horn substitute by chemically melting finger nails or something like that? Probably not in this forum. You never know. Who would have thought brittle glass fibers can have so much tensile strength when they are combined with epoxy? Until someone tried.

Finally, someone with an open mind...

[AndrewS]

If the bark coating was found on the bow belly, it does not mean that the conclusions in the book also apply.
Bark may not improve performance or strength, but it may protect the wood underneath with its waterproofing and flexibility. The bow becomes heavier in weight and loses some performance - but maybe it lasts longer..... 


A very interesting book article about syctian bows p. 26 to p.59 
https://books.google.de/books/about/Reflexbogen.html?id=h3H9pjiDsgsC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&redir_esc=y

- interesting is that there are bows finds from graves, which are probably pure wooden bows (without sinew covering and without hornbelly) but probably laminated.
Some of the replicas were composite bows (sinew, wood core and horn), some were sinew covered wooden bows. 
The bows were approximately 45 to 46 inches long. The draw weights of the bows were all in the 40 to 55 lbs range.
None of the bows achieved speeds over 150fps with a draw of 24 inches.

[PatM]

Adam Karpowicz made  a bow of this style from laminated bamboo and sinew and the weight was very high and the performance excellent, all things considered. I'm pretty sure it was over 200 with light arrows. I believe  the bow was under 40 inches in length. 

   I don't think they were all just complex grave goods.


 ETA:  Here's the specs:    " This bow has a bamboo belly, hardwood(?) core and is heavily backed with sinew - prob. about 1/2 the thickness of the limbs. It is only 32 inches ntn and the limbs mid length are only 19.5mm wide x 11.5mm thick. And only 160 grams total mass. I had to fix one limb which delaminated from overdrawing. Please add the imaginary recurved nocks of your choice, typical of these bows.

The f-d curve looks horrible with all the stacking and energy storage is obviously poor. However, the stats are quite impressive:

draw weight: around 90lb at 20 inches draw (gains some 30lb in the last 2 inches of draw!), SE/PDF is less than 0.5, 310 grain arrow - 204fps, 474 grain arrow - 176fps. Humidity 35-40%RH, 14de"
 

 

[Parnell]

InnerSmile,

Repeating myself from your 'Alternative ways...' thread, in which you failed to reply to me, "please, post some of your work so the community can gain insight into your background and intention."  In that previous post you insulted forum members with actual experience by calling them "simple minded."  Now, in this thread you insinuate closed minded behavior by people who have proper cause to question your seemingly selfish, speculative posts.

Frankly, your online behavior is rude, and I find genuine irony in your obtuse behavior given your chosen handle.

Really, WHY NOT POST SOME OF YOUR WORK?  Perhaps you can actually gain some validity versus being marginalized.
Your speculative research could be interesting and could be worth considering.  I wonder if you have the integrity to lay down the actual work in answering your own questions...or not.
 
This will be my last polite post if you fail to offer some actual validation.

[Yooper Bowyer]

How about we simmer down and read the link he posted?  Generally speaking, the group's conventional wisdom trumps google,  but once you get rude you can't ask him to be polite. 

Let's not shoot down the idea until it has been proven wrong, let's not adapt the idea until it has been proven right.

[JW_Halverson]

I hate it when someone quotes some random thing they've read or heard.

This post sounds suspiciously like posts from a recently banned member by the name of Tom Dulaney.  Even more suspicious is the fact that this Hannibal account was registered a few days after Tom was banned.  I hope I'm wrong

If you are wrong, I will eat the hat of your choice.

Tom II, seriously, build the bow and prove us wrong.

[PatM]

I believe the bows were functional  but that the actual function of the bark is a bit speculative. The bows seemed to be more of a common design and short in length but of varied construction and materials.