Heat treatment

[Fox]

I know this is a broad subject that may be too difficult to type out... and this also may not be the right form for the question.... but what steal would you recommend? 1095 and 5160 seem like good choices.... is there anyone willing to type out there heat treat method for these steels or other good beginner steels ?

I’m using a charcoal forge and am slightly limited by that 

[Fox]

I have lots log truck leaf spring but I have no idea how to cut usable pieces from it 

[Morgan]

Not super experienced here, but here’s my opinion. If you’re buying steel, hands down 1080 / 1084. Super easy. 1095, I’ve had issues with blades cracking in the quench more so than any other steel I’ve used and am not smart enough to figure out why. I’m a big fan of using found ( junk ) steel making knives for myself. I just cut small pieces of whatever steel I’m wanting to use and see what it likes the best in regards to temp and quench. If you have a lot of whatever steel you are testing, keep notes and label the steel so you know in the future. Angle grinder with a cutoff wheel will get your leaf springs cut up but be careful as the wheels can blow up and it ain’t fun when they do. I believe that lenox and maybe others make a thin cutoff wheels made of metal and diamond abrasive or something similar that is not supposed to blow up if bound up like the fiber abrasive wheels do. Been meaning to check those out.

[mmattockx]

I have lots log truck leaf spring but I have no idea how to cut usable pieces from it 

An angle grinder and a stack of cut off discs will work on pretty much any steel you can find. It isn't fast or particularly pretty, but it will get the job done for the lowest cost going. The only other way to deal with it is with an oxy/acetylene torch and that leaves a fair amount of slag cleanup to deal with.


Mark

[Mesophilic]

You can do some research on each steel you're interested.  The problem with higher alloy steels is that temp and soak times are critical to getting everything in to solution.  There's really nothing too fancy, just time and temperature....but I highly doubt you get it just right with a charcoal forge until you gain alot of experience.

1084/1080 is hypoeutectic, so carbon content is not over saturated, meaning  you really only need to get to critical temp and quench.  Don't need a long soak, and it's very forgiving.

5160 is also hypoeutectic.

1095 is hypereutectic, has more carbon than naturally wants to dissolve in the steel.  Have to force it with specified soak temp and time.

[Fox]

You can do some research on each steel you're interested.  The problem with higher alloy steels is that temp and soak times are critical to getting everything in to solution.  There's really nothing too fancy, just time and temperature....but I highly doubt you get it just right with a charcoal forge until you gain alot of experience.

1084/1080 is hypoeutectic, so carbon content is not over saturated, meaning  you really only need to get to critical temp and quench.  Don't need a long soak, and it's very forgiving.

5160 is also hypoeutectic.

1095 is hypereutectic, has more carbon than naturally wants to dissolve in the steel.  Have to force it with specified soak temp and time.

Thanks, mesophilic That's some really helpful info! yeah, I started reading about the difficulties of soaking accurately without a gas forge. I Think ill try 5160... and maybe 1084 or 1080. Is there much of a difference between 1084 or 5160 from 1095s as far as edge retention and whatnot?

[TRiggs]

Your best bet is to fo online and look up Alpha Knife Supply they have heat treat for all of there steel listed, and if you buy steel I would recommend 80CRV2 or 1084 same steel different name. Remember yellow hot is too hot !

[Mesophilic]

Thanks, mesophilic That's some really helpful info! yeah, I started reading about the difficulties of soaking accurately without a gas forge. I Think ill try 5160... and maybe 1084 or 1080. Is there much of a difference between 1084 or 5160 from 1095s as far as edge retention and whatnot?

In your search engine type "5160 vs 1084"  You should see some threads from bladeforums where they discuss alot of good info.

In my experience, 1084 gets sharper but 5160 is more impact resistant and keeps a working edge longer.  Of course this will vary depending on the heat treatment and edge geometry.   1095 gets harder and sharper than 1084 but not as impact resistant as 5160, but again, depends on the factors.

My all time favorite is 52100, but that requires a professional level heat treatment.

[Pappy]

Never knew their was so much to heat treating, I mostly use old files and just bring them up to non magnetic , quench , clean up and put them in the over on 375 for 2 hours, they seem to turn out nice. guess i may need to do a little more research , good info,thanks.
 Pappy

[KHalverson]

Never knew their was so much to heat treating, I mostly use old files and just bring them up to non magnetic , quench , clean up and put them in the over on 375 for 2 hours, they seem to turn out nice. guess i may need to do a little more research , good info,thanks.
 Pappy

every steel got a recipe..
just like venison chili.

[Morgan]

You can do some research on each steel you're interested.  The problem with higher alloy steels is that temp and soak times are critical to getting everything in to solution.  There's really nothing too fancy, just time and temperature....but I highly doubt you get it just right with a charcoal forge until you gain alot of experience.

1084/1080 is hypoeutectic, so carbon content is not over saturated, meaning  you really only need to get to critical temp and quench.  Don't need a long soak, and it's very forgiving.

5160 is also hypoeutectic.

1095 is hypereutectic, has more carbon than naturally wants to dissolve in the steel.  Have to force it with specified soak temp and time.

Thanks, mesophilic That's some really helpful info! yeah, I started reading about the difficulties of soaking accurately without a gas forge. I Think ill try 5160... and maybe 1084 or 1080. Is there much of a difference between 1084 or 5160 from 1095s as far as edge retention and whatnot?

My personal opinion is that any noticeable  difference in those steels would not be easily achieved by a relatively inexperienced Smith in a charcoal forge, which is why I would lean towards the simplest.

[Mesophilic]

Never knew their was so much to heat treating, I mostly use old files and just bring them up to non magnetic , quench , clean up and put them in the over on 375 for 2 hours, they seem to turn out nice. guess i may need to do a little more research , good info,thanks.
 Pappy

Wait till we introduce you to air hardening steels and plate quenching 

[Pappy]

You guys are on the ball, think I will just watch and lessen and stick to my old USA Nicholson files for now  Love hearing it though, who knows, maybe I will learn and remember some of it.  The more I hear the more I understand that you don't just fly by the seat of you pants like I do most of the time.
 Pappy

[Fox]

You guys are on the ball, think I will just watch and lessen and stick to my old USA Nicholson files for now  Love hearing it though, who knows, maybe I will learn and remember some of it.  The more I hear the more I understand that you don't just fly by the seat of you pants like I do most of the time.
 Pappy

  Yeah I’m learning that I think there’s more to steel then there is to bow making 


All the knifes I’ve made so far are with the method you just described pappy .... there not bad... what is your thoughts on your knifes edge retention and whatnot? Do you use your knifes for everything? Or do you have a professionaly made knife you use for skinning carving etc ?

[Fox]

Thanks for all the great info guys... really helpfull

I’m thinking I’ll play around with the spring steel for a while but maybe will eventually buy some 1084