A lesson learned about the long string and tillering

[Tradslinger]

I am also wanting my tips to be working tips, I guess. don't know the pros and cons

[Pat B]

Most of my bows have rigid tips for the last 6" or so. Trying to get them to work all the way to the tip can lead to whip tiller. If you leave the last 6" about 1/2" thick you can reduce the width to 3/8" or less, reducing the physical weight without losing the strength. You may even be able to reduce that thickness some too.

[Hawkdancer]

Great info, Folks, we newbies need all the input we can get on what works so we can decide what works for each of us without reinventing the bow(wheel).  Also, the input helps us decide what and how to ask questions.  Everybody stay in loop, please!  We would miss you!
Hawkdancer

[Tradslinger]

thanks for the infor on the tips. I managed a very tight long string and am mostly happy with how it looks. am still a little stiff on the right side. At this point, I am just trying to get good balance in the limbs and then begin working down on the weight. My draw is about 26 1/2" or so. I am taking pics but it may be a while before we are able to put them in. I am now making myself sit down and let it sit for a while so that I don't get in a hurry again. But, seeing it bend with a string on it is crazy awesome. Makes me feel a little like Dr Frankenstein. Still a long ways to go but it no longer is just a stave. I will use a shorter string next time to get a better view of the tiller.

[Dances with squirrels]

Tradslinger, us guys that have been doing this a while like to sense the excitement of new guys like yourself. At least I know I do. I dreamed many nights of various bows flexing on the tillering tree and I'd wake up all excited with new ideas or inspiration, head to the shop at 3 am to bend one before work. Some of that has waned, but I still stand there in awe of a fully drawn quivering selfbow on the tree. Love it! This is a cool thing we're doin'.

Pat, I think I know what you're getting at, and I doubt there's a way for us to replicate the exact physical structure and intricacies of the human hand. It's complex. But I also don't feel we should use that as an excuse to not try to improve our methods to get nearer that, or to hold too tight to conventional wisdom. I'm always, always open to suggestions on how to make a better bow in a more straightforward fashion. My means and methods are in a constant state of scrutiny and flux, and will continue to be.

Currently I have the cradle of my tree made so it can either be used to hold the bow 'static' if you will, so it can't move unless the balance is terrible, by supporting it near the top and bottom of the handle. Good balance/timing can be achieved this way(or with the bow clamped solidly) if the string is pulled from where our hand will pull it and the strength of the limbs is adjusted so the hook comes perfectly straight down perpendicular to the handle, we just won't know exactly where the dynamic balance point is... which led me to alter my tree so that....

A bow can also be supported at a single point anywhere in the handle area, allowing it to tilt with the slightest imbalance. Pulled from the string hand fulcrum point, this method will reveal where the balance point is in the drawn bow, and allow it to be moved where we want it to suit us, within reason, by adjusting the strength of one limb or the other. I think folks should try this, it can be an eye opener.

I have other odd shaped inserts I can use for pivoting or varying support higher or lower, but I rarely use them. Hey, how about a sandbag, or foam or gel pad? I could put something like that on there too, and I may just for the heck of it, but I don't think it would tell me anything different than that single movable pivot point.

[Tradslinger]

For me, the cool factor is very high in all of this. I do have Cherokee and Chickasaw blood in me but my grandparents and great grandparents didn't say a lot about it. had to do with owning land and working. Anyways, to see what was once a piece of a tree or cane turned into a bow and an arrow is amazing. So many things were lost and some recovered but these people didn't just survive, they thrived on what what available to them. I have gone the guantlet of compounds, etc like many have done but keep coming back to the simple stick and string. Just wish I had done this 50 years ago. got a lot to learn and a short time to do it LOL. And I can't wait to let loose the first arrow out of this bow!

[bentstick54]

Dances, is there anyway you could post a photo of your tillering tree and insert? I think that could be part of my problem, along with some other issues on my last bow that blew up. My 4” flat handle sits flat across a 3 1/2” 2x4 with the hook centered under the center of the handle, not centered the same as when the bow is in the hand. Usually when I get to tillered to about 26” I have my wife take photos of it drawn in my hand, and finish out tillering to 28” from the photos. I did not do that on the bow that blew up. Looking back at photos, at 25” on the tree it had a more circular tiller than it showed at 28” drawn in my hand. It definitely shifted to more of an elliptical tiller in my hand. Maybe I can incorporate your method to improve mine.

[Lehtis]

Long string to short... I’ve been mostly making longbows and never user floor bending more than quick testing. I’m relying on long string, just long enough from tip to tip, to monitor proper limb bending. When the tips bend enough to reach reasonable brace height, close to my fistmele, I svitch to short string. After this the tillering proceeds pretty quickly to desired result. Naturally, in the early beginning, this cost some staves because of I went too far with long string resulting too light bow.

[bownarra]

I have a similar set up to Dances. It works

[Zugul]

I think the one Dances with squirrels uses is similar to the one Del the Cat has. You can see it in his videos on YouTube, I've round them very usefull.

[Dances with squirrels]

I saw once how Del's are able to pivot. Mine is made different but acts like that. I don't know how his is set up down below. Mine has pulleys on a shaft that can be set or moved to wherever the string hand will be. I'll try to get some pictures posted. 

Bentstick, I doubt that's the reason your bow broke. Imbalance, or shooting a bow differently by hand than it was tillered on the tree is more likely to cause set in a limb than break it. I'm guessing something else was probably the cause.

[bentstick54]

Dances, I agree that was not the reason for my failure. That’s just the 1st bow I documented with a few photos along the way to where I could go back to look at after completing. I’m trying to fine tune my tillering tree and I knew I already wanted to adjust the point my hook lined up on the string, just not sure how I wanted to do it.