Wanted "bird point" article feedback...

[billy]

Hey everyone,

The newest issue of PA is hot off the press and in it is my most recent article, Putting Bird Points to the Test.  If you're a subscriber it should be arriving in your mailbox very soon.

 I just wanted some feedback from ya'll as to your opinions on the article.  Was it clear and easy to understand?  Did you find it interesting?  Did you have any additional questions after reading it?

Honestly I really enjoyed conducting the test and writing the article, and I hope everyone enjoys reading it.  I try to write stuff that is interesting and will teach readers something new.  I definitely learned a LOT after I conducted the test, and I wanted to pass it along to everyone.  Hope ya'll enjoy it and if you have any additional questions, send me a personal message and I'll respond.  I don't have internet at my place so I might not get back to ya immediately, but I promise to write back to everyone who contacts me. 

Thanks!

Billy

[hawkbow]

Billy, I loved the article and the information was great... sorry brother but I was really turned off by the disrespectful testing on the dead deer.. you could have done the penetration test on something else in my opinion, everyone to their own thing but i am almost certain you will be getting some less than nice responce to the test subject. your research and info in the article was great... Hawk a/ho

[Hillbilly]

I liked it, quite informative. I didn't notice the dimensions of the points listed anywhere, though (I may have overlooked it). Personally, I think the deer carcass was the most realistic test you could use- it's pretty hard to beat a dead deer as a test for seeing how well arrows will penetrate a deer.

[billy]

I didn't give the birdpoint dimensions because I took the photos with a penny for size comparison.  Most of the bird points were about as long as the diameter of a penny, so around 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch in length, and 1/8-to 1/4 of an inch in width. 

And as far as being disrespectful to the deer, I don't see it that way.  This was conducted as a test with scientific value.   Prehistoric hunters were not shooting foam, ballistic gel or de-boned slabs of beef with bird points, which is why I chose not to test them on those materials.  I think those are unrealistic and don't give accurate results.  Deer are the most widespread big game animal in the country so it made sense to test them on the real thing.  Archaeologists have conducted penetration tests of stone tipped spears on dead elephants to determine if Clovis points were capable of felling mammoths.  I know because I've read the articles.  But I've never read any literature on someone testing arrows tipped with stone birdpoints, so I decided that I'd be the one to do it.  I stand behind the test and everything I wrote because I think it was important, informative, and it has archaeological value.  But I appreciate your input and opinions!  Keep 'em coming.....   

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

i havent recieved my new issue yet but i  look forward to it.
i have tested stone points on a dead deer before. it tought me much more than i knew before. 2-3 shots into the rib cage gave me a good schooling. the way i see it, you use one dead deer to work out the bugs instead of wounding live deer. as much as i respect and appriciate hawkbow's opinion, i feel i can respect deer more by realistic testing my gear before experimentation if needed.  again, no dis-respect to your beliefs hawkbow, just a different outlook i suppose. - Ryan

[mullet]

  I havn't got mine yet, I think mine's coming by pack mule from North Carolina.

[El Destructo]

                         Well at least the Deer was dead....and not like the Rabbit that took 3-4 shots to anniilate

[DanaM]

eddie they were handing them out at Pappy's, think I have 2 

Lets not turn this into an arguement guys

[Justin Snyder]

Dang Dana, you sure are in a happy mood.  I still haven't got mine so I am in a fighting mood.  Justin

[hawkbow]

twisted limbs I see your point about the experiment, and not wounding deer by what you learned..Hawk

[scattershot]

I enjoyed the article, and found it very informative. I was surprised at the test medium, but only because we have become so " P.C." lately. Really, what better way to run the test? Well done.

[jamie]

awesome job billy. ive done a lot of tests similar to yours and in my early years of hunting killed 2 deer with what could be considered bird points . before i knew there was a legal width . my only problem with using a dead animal is you miss one factor. its the twitch factor. live tissue will contract on an arrow and other muscles like the legs kicking back will change how much penetration you get. its not much and i can tell you from my experience bird points kill and will pass completely through an animal. the two deer i took i found my arrows stuck in the ground behind it. there were also impressive blood trails for such small points. if i can find all the papers i had i'll make copies for ya. i know a guy from new york who has been compiling data on the damage done by stone points for years . i'll contact him to see if he is willing to share with ya. peace

[Pat B]

I' haven't yet completed the article but I have found what I have read interesting. I've been hunting with stone points for the last 3 years but haven't yew made a kill.  I'll keep trying.   
   When I lived in Coastal SC there was one spot we hunted artifacts and the only points we found at that spot were "bird" points. Below are a few pics of the ones I have in my collection. Everywhere else we hunted artifacts in Coastal SC we never found bird points but many other types...even a 10" obsidian blade.  Like in Billy's article, the penny is for size comparison.   Pat

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[1/2primitive]

Billy, yours was the first article I read through, and I appreciated it. Thanks.
     Sean

[Little John]

Makes you wonder? I know that here in the desert S.W. there was virtually no bow wood and maybe it was hard to get a heavy bow from willows, so if you are stuck with a light bow then shoot what will make it work. Any way it is a given that they would penetrate better if they dont explode on a rib. What we need now is a test on bison, I think the plains indians used small points also but surely you would need a much heavier bow, even tho they must have targeted the young. I guess if you were running them from horse back you would just give it another arrow if the first did not penetrate. If you timed your shot for when the animal was stretched out you would have a better chance of slipping one between the ribs. I have read that when running the buffaloe you could count it as a dead animal if blood came out the nose ( indicating a lung shot) and go after another.  Of corse they would be easier to find on the plains. Enjoyed the article.