Aiming at small ground level targets

[shooter123]

Is it harder to shoot close range at something small on the ground? I've got a 10 yard back garden range and when I shoot at a regular height target I can get a good group and hit where I want.

But today I was shooting a 5x5 inch insulation board offcut placed on the ground (facing me) around 7 yards, but found it much harder to hit it. The arrows kept landing either too short or too far (horizontally I was in the right place), but I was using the same technique which allows me to hit a regular height target.

Is this a nocking point issue or do I need to aim differently for such close, low and small targets? Bow is a primitive one shot using my hand as an arrow rest.

I should point out my eyesight isn't that great and I wear glasses, so maybe there's some weird interaction going on with that.

Thanks.

[Pat B]

What style shooting are you using? I shoot instinctively so I look where I want the arrow to go. Straight on close shooting isn't  a problem. Shooting sharply up or down more difficult.

[shooter123]

Hi, it's a homemade bow based on the English longbow with a bit of an arrow shelf cut out although the arrow still rests on my hand. I'm just wondering if aiming down at the ground at close range requires a different method of aiming.

I'm not sure what you mean by style but I can generally feel where the arrow will end up but I also aim, can't explain it but it's like throwing a stone. It just doesn't seem to work very well in this case.

[Pat B]

Sounds like a sort of instinctive shooting. Just keep trying and adjust your shot according. You have to concentrate hard on hitting the smallest spot on the target and not just at the overall target.
Good luck.

[HH~]

Do you what real aiming method your using?

Instinctive is just a person memorizing their arrow Trajectory. Not really an aiming method. You guess where the arrow will be at a given range based on how well your mind can remember the trajectory. After twenty five yards its is purely a best guess situation. Some can do well their entire lives shooting this way.

It cant stand up to a proven aiming method like gapping, SWing ,etc.

First got to know what your currently doing.

HH~

[shooter123]

Sounds like a sort of instinctive shooting. Just keep trying and adjust your shot according. You have to concentrate hard on hitting the smallest spot on the target and not just at the overall target.
Good luck.

Thanks. So there couldn't be some sort of a parallel error going on? I am aiming the arrow, but at these ground level very close ranges (5-7 yards) it's just very odd how harder it is to hit the spot I'm aiming for. Like I said I can hit things perfectly fine when they're more level with my bow and I don't have to aim down.

Are they any rule of thumb aiming adjustments for such situations? I've never shot up or down hills but maybe that's the same situation.

Do you what real aiming method your using?

Instinctive is just a person memorizing their arrow Trajectory. Not really an aiming method. You guess where the arrow will be at a given range based on how well your mind can remember the trajectory. After twenty five yards its is purely a best guess situation. Some can do well their entire lives shooting this way.

It cant stand up to a proven aiming method like gapping, SWing ,etc.

First got to know what your currently doing.

HH~

I must be aiming then, not purely instinctive as I do aim using the arrow. For example I like to put empty drink cans on the target face (probably about chest height) and I can hit the parts of the can such as the brand names and letters when I want, I do have to aim for that and concentrate on form and release. But when I attempt the same for little 3d targets on the ground at close range they either end up too far forward and too far back.

I guess I'm trying to ask if there's a rule of thumb such as aim a foot lower or higher for such close range and low targets, maybe some of the tree stand shooters have noticed this when their target is near the base of the tree.

[Pappy]

One thing you have to do especially if using some type of aiming system is bend at you waste so keeping your arm and shoulder at the same angle, dropping you arm to get on target will mess you up most every time, just keep your form solid from waste up and bend at you waste for uphill or down hit shooting.
 Pappy

[HH~]

Pappy is right. If you are just dropping your bow arm you are changing your the lentgh of your sight radius. Your making it longer.

You are tube shooting using shaft as sight tool. Up close with that method at 10yds and under youll need to aim under target just like shooting a handgun sighted at 25yds.

At that range it wont be to much. You will need to roll your upper body and bend some at waste towRd target to maintain you sight radius. So, if you olace a can on ground at 10yds you will be picking a spot in grass below can. Trust you spot you puck and shoot it.

Good Luck

Shawn~

[Deerhunter21]

id say what people call instinctive is also partly aiming, at least for most. i shoot instinctive but cant hit squat if i cant see the tip of my arrow, but if in not focusing on my target, i start flinging arrows everywhere but the target.

I went to The marshalls primitive rendevous, in michigan and when i was there, they were having a bear across the pond shoot. I didnt have my own bow but i was using someone else's for the time being. All i can say is that when i shot, i was actually not doing too much aiming. how could i aim with a bow with no sight, that i had maybe 30 min of practice with. So instead I sent one arrow down, marking where my tip was (above or below the horizon, nothing specific) and adjusted for that untill the third and fifth shot... they both just felt... very right when i drew and shot. i didnt see the arrow hit but for some reason i knew it would (it did, and i did win... goodness knows how). now every once and a while, everything feels perfect like that, no matter if its close or far.

basically what im saying is its just practice. Practice until you get it right, and be happy when you do, then practice until you never get it wrong, and be proud of what you've learned.

also remember to look at what your shooting in a 2d perspective. there may be 25yrds between you and your target but in the end it only takes about 2" of vertical movement to move that arrow from 10yrds to 25yrds (and when your even closer it takes less and less to change where that arrows going). so if your hitting the ground below your target, just know your actually closer than you think.

[Tradslinger]

I catch flack over this all of the time but oh well. years ago, I was very inconsistent in my shooting. I would nail something hard and then blow an easy shot. So I made myself practice on tiny objects at a bout a foot or so on the ground with blunts. Objects were live bees, wasps and such on clover. I kept at it until I had that distance pretty well "mastered" and then would back up one more foot and keep at it and so on. did this for a couple of weeks, getting out farther and farther. I would also float back and forth on the distance to keep my brain in tune with unknown distances and tiny objects. What I also noticed from doing all of this was how more focussed I had become on my target and I was used to picking a tiny spot to shoot at. It also helped me on my form and release as I concentrated so hard to hit the object. Since then, I went to shooting dried beans and 1/2" red Pom Poms. I even glue these to fishing line and suspend fressly in front of a backstop or target. A total game changer for me on everything from Bowfishing to small game and big game. I quit shooting at things and became more focussed plus got my brain tuned into what I was trying to do. The brain is so awesome when we use it like we should. 

[Pat B]

The secret to good shooting is practice, practice, practice..., consistency in every part of your shot from siteing the target, draw, anchor and release and complete concentration in where the arrow WILL go. Shooting at a target won't do it. You have to pick a spot, the smaller the better and know the arrow WILL go there.
 Like tradslinger I also believe that smaller targets will put the arrow closer to that point but you have to believe it. At my target butt I have a rigid conduit frame in about 3' in front of the butt. I hang a string from this with something small tied it and that is what I sometimes shoot at. Once it's hit it swings making it more of a challenge but with practice and concentration it can easily be done.

[HH~]

If your aiming system is solid>>-----> Form work is all you really must perform. Shooting anything is a perishable skill so it goes without saying you have refresh those skills. Will practice get you there with the lack of a solid aiming system..... Ah, that with be a big NO. File the sights off your 45 ACP and i will use mine whose gonna put em in ten ring consistantly?

HH~

[ssrhythm]

First thing that came to mind is that you are likely not bending at the waist and orienting your upper body toward the target the way it is when you are shooting at something at waist-to-head level.  Dropping arm causing you to miss...then adjusting arm to compensate producing up/down inconsistency.  I try to practice elevated shots, but its difficult when there are no trees in your yard, and no climbable trees in the state!  Practicing the way you are seems like a great idea, and I'm going to start doing that.  I'm also going to start trying to find somewhere to shoot uphill, as I'm sure I'll find myself having to do so when hunting here in Wyoming and I guess the same issue will be in play just in reverse.  So, thanks for starting this thread!

[HH~]

Shhoting up or down is same. Arrow impacts higher than over a flat plane. The best thing any archer can do is practice range estimation.

I use to practice this with my father. I asked him how he always seemed beat other guts shooting 2d comp in 70-80s. He always said “ because i pratice range estimation out to 80yds alot. We shoot about the same on known targets but when we shoot unknown distance in shoots 2yds off your range estimation and best shooter cant win”.

One of the first or maybe the very first turkeys killed in my state after re introduction was taken by my father. He took it at 70yds. I asked “ how is that possible”?

He says “ well , we shoot that 2d turkey target out to 60yds and i knew it was about 10yds further. Luck dont hurt either”. Bird was behind a barbed wire fence he could not see. Arrow looked good he said but the kicked and sailed into air and bird just fluttered and spun in a circle. Arrow hit wire, defected and cut birds head nearly off.

HH~