Question on short reflex deflex bows

[DC]

Dc, what speeds are you after?

I think you deserve a better answer. I seem to be caught in an arms race with myself. Since I hit 200 anything that doesn't reach that mark seems like a failure. I'm throwing bows that shoot 195fps in the corner of shame. This is wrong and something in the back of my mind says that I should get back into the "art" part of this hobby. I just get obsessed with stuff that catches my interest. That's my fault.

[Badger]

  DC, I think what you are doing is very important much more so than you realize. It will have ramifications that reach into the modern bow world as well. You have been good about giving Mark St Louis full credit for his designs and I respect that immensely. We will never know for sure if Mark was reaching those speeds with his bows because his testing was not as formal as yours. I would like to see the elements of his designs that you are concentrating on looking for more speed? Extremely skinny strings are most likely giving you about a 5 fps boost. I don't believe that many woods besides yew could give you the same results as yew has almost double the elasticity over most woods and you seem to have done an outstanding job of utilizing the yew wood to its potential.  Just hearing about your program of chasing this speed I think is worthy of some attention.

[DC]

Well thank you Badger. I just wish I understood more of what was going on.

[willie]

I'm throwing bows that shoot 195fps in the corner of shame. This is wrong..I just wish I understood more of what was going on

have you considered putting some of those bows in the hands of other shooters and letting them give you feed back?

[sleek]

I'm throwing bows that shoot 195fps in the corner of shame. This is wrong..I just wish I understood more of what was going on

have you considered putting some of those bows in the hands of other shooters and letting them give you feed back?

I think he uses them to experiment with later...

[Eric Garza]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Eric. That wasn't the intent.

No problem at all. This is all very informative.

[sleek]

Dc, what speeds are you after?

I think you deserve a better answer. I seem to be caught in an arms race with myself. Since I hit 200 anything that doesn't reach that mark seems like a failure. I'm throwing bows that shoot 195fps in the corner of shame. This is wrong and something in the back of my mind says that I should get back into the "art" part of this hobby. I just get obsessed with stuff that catches my interest. That's my fault.

I understand well. Im doing the same thing from the self bow standpoint. I've hit 184 fps with mine, though in not r/d in design, and im now looking to hit 190s with the same design and only pulling 26 inches.

My failures are still darn good bows, and I keep them to experiment with and tweak. I have 2 im going to back, one with sinew and the other bamboo.

[DC]

I'm throwing bows that shoot 195fps in the corner of shame. This is wrong..I just wish I understood more of what was going on

have you considered putting some of those bows in the hands of other shooters and letting them give you feed back?

I think he uses them to experiment with later...

Freight, customs, the fact that they're all cobbled up with patches and yes, I do sometimes modify them.

[bradsmith2010]

when you are an artist,, nothing is wrong,,

[Eric Garza]

I understand well. Im doing the same thing from the self bow standpoint. I've hit 184 fps with mine, though in not r/d in design, and im now looking to hit 190s with the same design and only pulling 26 inches.

Sleek, what design are you using if not r/d? You have my attention.

[Eric Garza]

Also intrigued by your mention of a shorter draw. I have been looking at a lot of force-draw curves, and been thinking that reducing draw length down to the inflection point where you see the transition from the region of declining slope to the region of increasing slope. Depending on side view profile and overall bow length that often happens around 21-25 inches on most of the bows I have made and measured.

[sleek]

I understand well. Im doing the same thing from the self bow standpoint. I've hit 184 fps with mine, though in not r/d in design, and im now looking to hit 190s with the same design and only pulling 26 inches.

Sleek, what design are you using if not r/d? You have my attention.

I use a recurve that is deflexed in the handle, then reflexed through the limb, ending with hooks at the tips. I did steal from a the typical R/D design, but with the addition of recurves, I dont think it falls into the R/D category any more, though without the recurve, it would resemble an R/D. Its a short bow design, only 54 inches long, and fits my 26 inch draw very well. 26 inches draw isn't anything I came by scientifically, its just my draw, so I designed this bow entirely around my draw length. Im shooting 184 fps right now with it, and believe strongly i can hit 190s with the same design.

I plan to go to 28 inches draw with a 58 inch bow eventually as i think thats the ideal bow length for that draw, and have a dream of hitting mid to upper 190s with a self bow.

[sleek]

Also intrigued by your mention of a shorter draw. I have been looking at a lot of force-draw curves, and been thinking that reducing draw length down to the inflection point where you see the transition from the region of declining slope to the region of increasing slope. Depending on side view profile and overall bow length that often happens around 21-25 inches on most of the bows I have made and measured.

I believe, if I understand you well, my design is right on the edge of that, however I hadnt though of this angle of perspective. I am still trying to fatten my curve and for now, its very flat.

Eric, what length bow do you typically make?

[Eric Garza]

Most recently I have been playing with bows that are about as long (tip-to-tip) as I am tall, so about 67 inches. They shoot well and draw smooth, but the areas I hunt have lots of brush which makes getting a clean draw and release a challenge sometimes.

If I averaged all of the bows I have made, the length would probably be around 55 or 56 inches. I enjoy hunting with shorter bows more than longer ones, and of course it is easier to find (and cheaper to buy) nice, straight, clean short staves than it is finding longer ones.

[Eric Garza]

Also, Sleek can I assume the fps numbers you are reporting are for 10 gpp arrows? Those are solid arrow velocities for such a short bow. You are obviously doing a lot of things right.