reflex deflex on Native American plains bows

[willie]

I have been looking at examples of Native American bows and see many examples from the Great Plains with deflexed tips, both with and without sinew backs. Quite a few have  reflex out of the handle in addition to  deflexed tips.  Many  also seem to have quite thick limbs for their length.

Not being able to examine bows in person, or been able to find any dimensional reproductions of the form, I am curious how they might have been tillered.  Since the bows are generally short, did they bend thru the handle?  and bend thru the entire limb?

How much did they typically draw weight wise?   length wise?

What was the purpose of the deflex in the limbs?

The drawings are from The Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers by Steve Allely and Jim Hamm,  Volume 2, Plains and Southwest





 
 

[PatM]

This subject pops up quite regularly.  Lots of theories about it.  It certainly was the dominant bow style over a  vast area at one time.  The dimensions  of most of these bows work out to mid weight bows,  with some exceptions.

[willie]

Pat,
about how much is mid weight?

[bassman]

Here is one theory. The bows were straight limbed at the start, and after shooting for  a period of time the limbs took set (deflex).  The simple fix was heat at the riser ,and bend in reflex. (Gull wing). Don't know if their is any truth to it , but it sounds logical.

[willie]

but it sounds logical.

there is some logic to that idea, but the design seems prevalent in the area, so that gives me the suspicion the deflex is intentional.

I found this bow at the Canadian Museum of History
 https://www.historymuseum.ca/collections/artifact/35206/?q=iii-i-1245&page_num=1&item_num=0&media_irn=3098506&mode=artifact

It is reportedly from further east, but seen as a deflex/reflex it does not seem quite right, but if one flips it over and views it as a reflex/deflex, it looks...... hmmmm........well, you make the call

[PatM]

It was said that the bows were often seasoned by tying the stave in reflex around a tree trunk so the reflex might be the first step and the mid limb curve due to set.

  Bows of this design are easier to string, particularly on horseback.  The tendency to stack  at a specific point also helps with the draw style they used.  As soon as the wall was hit the arrow would be loosed.  That's a good anchor when you don't have an anchor point.

 The other bow of Eastern origin very likely is a Mohegan style which would be strung the opposite way.

 

[bassman]

Jim Hamm shows unbraced, and braced profile of a northern plains Ash bow with a Gull wing design 48 inches long in his book, but as many, or more  were simple D shaped bows. Some even made a reflex deflex style bow. The Souix favored 3 to 4 foot bows with short arrows. The Osage Comanche  bow was longer with longer arrows, and they shot different finger style with the string hand , and bow hand. Were the designs came from , and for what reason who really knows for sure.

[willie]

Bows of this design are easier to string, particularly on horseback.  The tendency to stack  at a specific point also helps with the draw style they used.  As soon as the wall was hit the arrow would be loosed.  That's a good anchor when you don't have an anchor point.

Those are good points in favor of the design. I know you have studied this some. Some previous discussions I found here at PA, present more questions than answers. If you can point to any similar discussions or articles outside of this site, the references would be appreciated.

I have a hard time agreeing with the "it's just set" being a reasonable observation, unless it is a first hand account by someone who has tried to build and shoot a replica.  If the design/build process was such that the deflex was deliberately planned by the bowyer to accomplish purposes like you mention, and the method tocreate that  deflex was to make the limb come in at full draw with that much set, then that's something to consider. But that raises the question about whether a limb with dried in or heated in deflex (and tillered without creating set), could be better than deliberately overstraining the limb while tillering.

the bow from the museum is said to be from the  Kanien'kehaka culture.

[StickMark]

I am letting a second course of sinew dry on a bow with the first course, two layers, second layer down middle, on first course,. So, the drying wiped out all deflex I dried into this oak sapling with course one. But tillering it, and wham, deflex came back. 36 # was too light, so second course of 2.5 layers, on the middle mainly, and it shows 29,30# at 10" (58,60#).
 Going to let it dry a lot more. But I bet I see the tips deflecting, once again.

[StickMark]

Oh, and I have read that the deflex might help with avoiding set during a period keeping the bow strung a long time.

[dylanholderman]

i'm slowly working on a bow of this style and while i'm not anywhere near to stringing it yet my untested guess is that the deflex will help with stability, pretty much the same way a more typical reflex deflex does they just put it at a different part of the bow.

[bownarra]

In the last two of your of your pictures the first way is correct. It would make a lovely shooting short bow.
The 2nd option would be.....a dog A reflexed handle on an already short bow will lead to very low energy storage, over straining the wood mid to outer limb and the stack would be awful. 
In my mind there is no question which way round at least that bow was made
Anyway just look for which side of the bow has one growth ring....

[bassman]

Or if you can see the arc on the end grain. I am thinking that bow also took some degree of deflex over time. To me it is almost inevitable. JMO

[PatM]

The arc of the growth rings would definitely be more of an indicator.  Native bows didn't  really follow the one growth ring idea rigidly.

[Traxx]

To add to the reasons already discussed a softer early draw weight,is beneficial to hold a partial draw especially when using a hold,such as an augmented pinch as most did..When using on horseback at a high rate of speed more often over uneven ground,a partial draw would be beneficial to a quick snap shot when the opportunity for the shot presented itself..Often,there was a very small window of opportunity for effective shot placement.. Even on most of the sinew backed bows,the backing was light and i believe was more for prevention of breakage than for performance enhancement..They still had qualities of the selfbows with deflexed outer limbs...These bows were not long range target bows and were not for flight shooting..If one utilizes  them in the context they were designed to be used in,they may start to really understand and appreciate the benefits to the design that was so prevalent to the culture..