What is primitive?

[Calendargirl]

Hey All,
I am the one that set up the survey.  There was no intent behind it other than I was curious...   I was looking through one of our very early issues and in it was this survey-  It was from pretty exactly 25 years ago.  Two issues later were the results.  Back then they had people either copy the survey with a xerox or just tear out the page and mail it in.  I copied the exact survey and thought I would do the same along with the results from 25 years ago.  All out of curiosity - I didn't have an intent behind it other than to start conversation and interaction.  There are many on this site now or subscribers that weren't even born or were just toddling around when it was originally published. 
I have loved reading all the responses.  I guess a big difference is I didn't publish the survey this time, I emailed it and posted it here.  Currently, we have had great responses and many have been kind enough to elaborate at the end. 
I look forward to putting together all the results and comments.  Hearing the different thoughts on it all can make one ponder.  I guess that was the true intent- seeing other perspectives and pondering new or old schools of thought. 
Thank you to all who have filled out the survey.  It took me a lot of YouTubing and article reading to learn how to set up a survey on our website.  So I appreciate your efforts in responding as it has made mine very worthwhile.
Thanks guys!

Calendargirl
-marie-

[gutpile]

my thoughts are made from all natural materials. is considered primitive.. if using synthetics or modern materials.. modern primitive.. tools are not even considered.. now if the category was  "primitively made " then tools would be a factor.. gut

[stuckinthemud]

For me, its the use of synthetic material,  synthetics are modern, anything else will have a historical precedent somewhere

[mullet]

I think everybody is making a mountain out of a molehill. I was a member of TBOF when Jack was the president or one of the officers. I'm pretty sure when Jack started this survey 25 years ago he

was fishing for ideas to establish a set of rules for a "primitive" only division for our club shoots. For people that were making or shooting a homemade, all wooden bow. And whether to allow

aluminum arrows, plastic nocks, vanes, or just all natural arrows only. I shoot in another club now with Jack, The Florida Frontiersmen, pre 1840's and he pretty much came up with the rules for that

organization also. There was never a conversation I know of on how the bow was built. But just all natural material was used.

[HH~]

Why self nocks in that shoot Eddie?



HH~

[George Tsoukalas]

I remember that survey from 25 years ago. That's how long I've been a subscriber.

I participated in this year's  survey and thought it was fine and enjoyable.

You don't have to answer if you don't like surveys. I do and did.

I don't think Primitive Archer is able to influence shoot organizers across the country in setting up classifications.

You don't have to go to traditional only shoots. Actually, those are the only ones I go to these day because those are what I enjoy. I don't foresee going to any in the near future but I do enjoy them. Most have been cancelled anyway.

This is a free country, at least for the time being. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Jawge

[Pat B]

I think, 25 years ago when the survey was offered we had few choices. You either shot compounds, traditional glass lam bows or all wood bows. In that scenario all wood bows were the "primitive" bows. We've come a long way with wood bows in that 25 years so what folks referred to as primitive then is just a wood bow now.

[mullet]

Shawn, all of the shoots I go to only allow selfnocks or natural material nocks, like bone or wood plugs in cane. Twin Oaks was the first shoot I attended  that allowed plastic nocks in Primitive division. You can shoot any arrow but not for score.

And the shoots down here let wood laminated bows in the same category as selfbow.

[WhistlingBadger]

For me, "primitive" means using all-natural materials for the bow, glue, backing, finish, and string.

That was my answer, too.  But then I got to thinking:  Processed sinew, retted and combed linen fibers, and hide glue do not occur in nature.

To my mind, primitive archery just means shooting bows and arrows that are or could have been made in pre-industrial conditions.  I have to hunt with steel points, and I use modern strings because linen is hard to find around here, and I stick my hand-stripped turkey feather fletches to my sitka spruce shafts with modern adhesives.

I classify myself as a sorta-almost-primitive archer.

I don't do many shoots or competitions, but I would think that self-bow, laminated wood/horn, laminated modern, compound, and crossbow would be reasonable categories.  But around here, it's just fun to shoot with other people.  I can shoot my self bow fine against other trad bows.  If I compete against the wheely boys, I'm going to get whooped.  That's a choice I make and I'm OK with it.

[dylanholderman]

i certainly didn't mean to come across as offended and i apologize if i did.

i thought the survey was interesting from the historical perspective and harmless, anyone who thought it was attempting to take something away is just paranoid 

i think the difficulty of answering "what is primitive?" is that without a narrow context it is a philosophical question and everyone will have a different point of view     

[HH~]

I guess i could get Jim Davis to make Selfnock reparrows. When you shoot one off, taper the rear of arrow and glue a new nock reparrow  on the back.

Does TBOF even require arrows to be matching in weight length ?

The girl who shot high SB score there this year shot one of my bows. Did not have a selfnock so moved her to longbow after the shoot?

HH~

[mullet]

You don't have to shoot matching arrows.

[HH~]

Yeah, i thought not.

Gotta have self nocks but can have 275grn arra and a 600grn one.  Somehow there’s a disconnect there abouts? But Hey, thats their chicken down there.

HH~

[Traxx]

To be labeled truly "Primitive",,the means of manufacture are as important as the materials used..Can we enjoy Natural materials archery without being truly "Primitive"??..Of course we can..Unless we are trying to make authentic recreations or museum quality artifacts,,then it really shouldn't matter all that much.. Ishi himself capitalized on more modern materials and methods once he was exposed to them...

[willie]

.. Ishi himself capitalized on more modern materials and methods once he was exposed to them...

There are guys on the Yukon river that use spears and spear throwers (atlatls) to hunt seals. Not because some else did years ago, but because it is still the best way to do it. The skills have been passed down in their families for more than 10,000 years. Some folks might say that's primitive, but don't tell them that. Or  tell them they can't use an outboard on the skiff.