Horn crossbow?

[Hamish]

 I am aware of the brick pattern horn used with horn crossbows. There is a good book, in German, Die Hornbogenarmbrust, by Holger Richter that shows historical examples of it and how to reconstruct one.

I have often wondered why they didn't use the method used for Asiatic horn composite flight , hunting and warbows, with the full length of horn, and a stiff wooden core, backed with sinew. Whether it was due to not getting enough draw weight, was my guess, I had not considered the potential for delamination, as I have no experience with making horn bows.

 Regular horn/sinew composites seem to be able to have extremely long draw lengths, for the shortness of the bow, so its probably possible for a hunting weight bow, maybe not for a bow suitable for dealing with plate armour, or a siege artillery weight bow? Just a thought.

[Hamish]

Hi Arvin, It looks like you have backed the top 2 bows in your photo, with horn(or is it some other material)? If true, how do they perform?

I have heard of baleen being used as a backing(and a belly too). I have often wondered how horn would go as a backing.

[Selfbowman]

Hamash the black bows are backed with Gemsbok. The bamboo backed bow has gemsbok on the belly. It also has a bamboo core. Pretty lite in mass has good cast. The Osage backed with gemsbok real descent cast. I put gemsbok on the belly of a Osage selfbow it broke records but had less performance than the other  combinations. The boo backed had the best performance.it has not been officially been shot at a flight shoot yet.

Bownara is the all horn doggy because of mass. I found the horn to be heavy. Gemsbok seams to work better on the back of wood. But the belly of bamboo.
Arvin

[Selfbowman]

How much braced draw might be in a 100-120# cross bow ?Like 15” added to brace.also how much working limb.
Arvin

[bownarra]

Yes horn comes out at around 1.3s.g.
Make a horn/wood/sinew composite of any design and stick it on a stock. Simple
They used multiple pieces of horn to make the super high draw weight bows.
Nothing at all wrong with making a true composite and mounting it on a stock, if you only want upto around 200#

[stuckinthemud]

I don't know why you think buffalo horn delaminates? Sure you can get pieces with checks in that go further than you can see but solid, well dried material is absolutely bombproof.

Well, because some of the horn that I have did/does, also there is a quote in the Baron de Cason manuscript about horn crossbow reconstruction that says exactly that - heavy horn-bows are built up instead of using the thickness of the horn because the horn splits apart.  I have only a small batch of horn and it may be poor quality but just saying what I have experienced. Anyway, if I were the OP, I agree, just build a nice simple Asiatic composite, make it short and have fun. 30cm draw instead of 30 inches would that make the bow about 70cm ttt? The brick-wall construction is only necessary for draw weights of over 200lb

[simk]

Look at this: - 67 horn strips, 825g of sinew and 1257 lb 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA5M0QKXtWU&feature=youtu.be

basically you could also do a sinew/horn only composite without wood like some us-native and indonesian bows...

[BowEd]

I agree with bownarra about no concern about delaminations happening with water buffalo horn.
Cool bows you made there.Years ago I made some BBO's D/R 64" long with horn bellys[gemsbok].I liked them.That horn will put a lot of stress on the bamboo.Good quality bamboo is a must.
People who've not fooled with horn always seem to worry about the extra mass horn can put on a bow.I've found in the end after tillering the bows are actually way under mass weight compare to all wood bows.The same happens when sinewing a bow too.The bows get narrower reducing mass.In the process of making those bows I took notice exactly what thickness of horn would give for draw weight also.
You might be on your own groping to find out this draw weight concern.Pretty sure though with that design you showed you can get 80 to 90 pounds yet though at the 15" draw length.I'd still be worried about cast speed though.
Very cool U tube simk.I'd hate to get hit by that bolt.Instant death!!!!!

[Selfbowman]

Simk this bow would hopefully be a flight bow. I noticed the size of bolts in the video. Massive!!! The record is held by a commercial made bow. 444 yds I think. So it’s primitive vs modern. Just something to pass time during covrt 19.
Arvin

[Selfbowman]

Heat straighten horn.

[Selfbowman]

Limb on caul. More heat.
Arvin

[Selfbowman]

Hey pappy, Pat , somebody. If this should be on horn page can one of y’all move if need be cause I am not smart enough. If alright here that’s fine too. Arvin

[Selfbowman]

Ed if I was to do a good tiller on these limbs how far do you think I could take that horn? Straight or past straight? The radius on out side of caul is about 18” from end to end. Probably need 3” of that to mount limbs. Leaving 15”.Arvin

[simk]

  arvin messin' around with horn  looking forward for the pics to come. thanks for sharing     

[BowEd]

Ed if I was to do a good tiller on these limbs how far do you think I could take that horn? Straight or past straight? The radius on out side of caul is about 18” from end to end. Probably need 3” of that to mount limbs. Leaving 15”.Arvin

A good tiller would be a must have and how thick your horn is too.Horn cannot take much tension work alone.I'd put sinew over the back.
A friend of mine liked to put horn on the back of long bows in a non stressful design at 64" and longer.They would never break but it's a different story with short limbs and reflexed a lot more.Good thing is wider and shorter lengths of horn would be easier to get stable the way you had it pictured.
You'll just have to try it.Maybe break a horn or two and try again.