My new Hornbow

[bownarra]

Interesting about the vinegar. I'll look into it and do some testing.

[Marc St Louis]

I've heard of vinegar being added to hide glue but it wasn't for the purpose of making it more flexible or stronger, in fact I heard it weakened the glue a bit.  What I read was that it was added to reduce it's gel point

[bownarra]

Well the vinegar reduced the strength of my test glue-ups enough that I won't use it on a bow.
I find that simply doing the different processes when the weather suits is the best way. Even in cold spring England there are ways around the glues gelling.

[Corvus]

Vinegar seems like a bad idea especially when using already lower grade glues like rabbit(low collagen) and liquid pre-mix

[simk]

Hey, it's not my invention. It's just from scientific studys of the Munich techincal University about various ancient glueing recipies. It's tested on all types of many hornbows. If this one will fail its only due to my incapability 

[Corvus]

Have you used this in practical application before? 2 pretty well experienced people posted before me. Vinegar dissolves hide glue, I don't see anyway how it would not weaken it. It might give you a slower gel time, but does not seem like a good thing to do imo. If it has worked for you then have at it, but I personally would not risk a weaker glue line for all the work that goes into horn composite builds. Then again I would not use the types of glue you are using to begin with myself, nothing but top quality materials. Don't want to spend all that time to just end up with delamination or breakage. Just my 2 cents

[simk]

Corvus, yes my last one had this features too  especially the sinew layer worked very well I think. I'm deeply impressed by Marcs bow's and bownarras too and they have my greatest respect. But if I was looking for advice I had asked here before doing so and posting. It's just for entertainement. Very interested and open minded I'm taking the different opinions to come. Luckyly I'm gifted with a counsel I 1000% trust and with some things it's usually better to listen to only one expert    

[Corvus]

Why I said if it works for you then have at it. Was not aimed at giving advice, was just joining in on the conversation about the vinegar there. Maybe the extra additives to the liquid glue help keep the glue from being broken down. I would not try it with just regular hide glue myself. If it works for you then it is a neat trick and good luck with the build

[bownarra]

Nothing wrong with learning by making your own mistakes
Not listening to others is also your choice
I am in the same camp as Corvus - only the finest materials and techniques are used when it comes to a horn bow. A wooden bow that only takes a few hours to make is different. A good hornbow will have many hours in it and I don't like wasting my time haha.
You may have one person whom you 1000% trust but I preferred to get my knowledge through the consensus of the majority. I would suggest that all these 'tricks' have been tried before and disguarded for whatever reason - there is nothing new under the sun When a bow type (composite) has been made and worked on for easily a 1000+ years I am humble enough to realize that the consensus is probably right
If you aren't bothered with tradition I would use EA40. Mixed 2:1 and cured at 40 - 50 degs.

[simk]

bownarra, you are very eloquent 
what do you mean by consensus of the majority? following blindly the book of A.K.? I'm glad some people have gone beyond that and did their on research. I don't like monocultures, I like diversity. There's not only one path leading to Rome and not only one church to attend.
By the way: Using 2k on the horns felt like cheating to me
Let's all do some nice bows 

Thank you Corvus - sure need the luck - 6 million ways to fail.....choose one 

[stuckinthemud]

Having just made a batch of size, more than I can possibly use on my current job, I suspect that the vinegar would be useful as a fungicide - maybe help to stop un-used glue from going 'off'' ?

[simk]

that is correct 

[simk]

i usually put the glue in the refrigerator to store it

[bownarra]

Melt it again and then pour out on baking trays. Thin enough and it will just dry without going off or as simk says in the fridge or freezer.

[BowEd]

Ditto.