What makes a bow Primitive?

[The Zen Master]

In the day and age of computer everything, online shopping and everything else. I would think any bow not made with CNC machines aluminum and carbon fiber would be considered primitive. If it's one piece of wood? prehistoric....

The argument of what is more primitive in 2020 is futile at best. Does something made with primitive tools make it more primitive? I don't think it does. Does it really matter how you arrive at the same place as long as you get there?  I often find these discussions hilarious. "Who's techniques are more primitive?" Who cares. Unless you live in a cave without electricity, no vehicle or modern convenience it's all hypocrisy anyway. If you do, how would you know this discussion was going on?

Lets just say that I do not believe that Primitive people were making Home Depot board bows or and laminated bows that require machined surfaces to glue-up?

No offense to any of that just, I don't really see too many primitive bows here.

[The Zen Master]

that depends on your opinion of primitive.

This is my opinion of primitive  - from Merriam Webster...

Definition of primitive

(Entry 1 of 2)
1a : not derived : original, primary
b : assumed as a basis especially : axiomatic primitive concepts
2a : of or relating to the earliest age or period : primeval the primitive church
b : closely approximating an early ancestral type : little evolved primitive mammals
c : belonging to or characteristic of an early stage of development : crude, rudimentary primitive technology
d : of, relating to, or constituting the assumed parent speech of related languages primitive Germanic
3a : elemental, natural our primitive feelings of vengeance— John Mackwood
b now sometimes offensive : of, relating to, or produced by a people or culture that is nonindustrial and often nonliterate and tribal primitive art
c : naive
d(1) : self-taught, untutored primitive craftsmen
(2) : produced by a self-taught artist a primitive painting

primitive noun

Definition of primitive (Entry 2 of 2)
1a : something primitive specifically : a primitive idea, term, or proposition
b : a root word
2a(1) : an artist of an early period of a culture or artistic movement
(2) : a later imitator or follower of such an artist
b(1) : a self-taught artist
(2) : an artist whose work is marked by directness and naïveté
c : a work of art produced by a primitive artist
d : a typically rough or simple usually handmade and antique home accessory or furnishing
3a : a member of a primitive people
b : an unsophisticated person

[PatM]

" Just because it's primitive does not mean it has to be crude"     A friend of the late Dean Torges.

[stuckinthemud]

Yes, it is a futile argument, but many bowyers here fell trees with a hatchet, carve the bows out with the same tool, finish them with a knife and scraper, use linen string and linen-seed-oil with wax and I would say those technologies go back at least 4000 years (in metal) and much further in stone tools. When I took my kids to the Roman life exhibition in a local museum they said " look Dad they use the same tools you do"
Be encouraged,  most bows here are made with traditional tools and you are part of one of the most ancient crafts on the planet. Woah, that got deep all ofa sudden, huh?

[Handforged]

that depends on your opinion of primitive.

This is my opinion of primitive  - from Merriam Webster...

Definition of primitive

(Entry 1 of 2)
1a : not derived : original, primary
b : assumed as a basis especially : axiomatic primitive concepts
2a : of or relating to the earliest age or period : primeval the primitive church
b : closely approximating an early ancestral type : little evolved primitive mammals
c : belonging to or characteristic of an early stage of development : crude, rudimentary primitive technology
d : of, relating to, or constituting the assumed parent speech of related languages primitive Germanic
3a : elemental, natural our primitive feelings of vengeance— John Mackwood
b now sometimes offensive : of, relating to, or produced by a people or culture that is nonindustrial and often nonliterate and tribal primitive art
c : naive
d(1) : self-taught, untutored primitive craftsmen
(2) : produced by a self-taught artist a primitive painting

primitive noun

Definition of primitive (Entry 2 of 2)
1a : something primitive specifically : a primitive idea, term, or proposition
b : a root word
2a(1) : an artist of an early period of a culture or artistic movement
(2) : a later imitator or follower of such an artist
b(1) : a self-taught artist
(2) : an artist whose work is marked by directness and naïveté
c : a work of art produced by a primitive artist
d : a typically rough or simple usually handmade and antique home accessory or furnishing
3a : a member of a primitive people
b : an unsophisticated person

Most self bows and a good many laminate bows on this site fall into the definition of primitive.   I was reviewing posts here and had not seen any bows that you made, primitive or otherwise. It begs the question, why is it so important what other people are doing? 

[PatrickH]

I am a graduate art history student, and in class when discussing cultures that don't have industrialized societies we tend to say culture with "long standing traditions" instead of "primitive." primitive is a rather arbitrary term with a history of racist connotations. So I guess really there are no primitive bows, just ones made using ancient traditional styles and techniques. So I guess it just comes down to how much of a purist you want to be. Or if you want to be a purist at all.

[stuckinthemud]

Forgot to add, Ancient eastern Mediterranean peoples, Egyptians and other Eastern peoples were laminating bows in the early and high Bronze Ages

[PatM]

Guys living in bark huts were also managing to laminate bows in Eurasia.

   The question  is why the OP asks this question  when he himself has yet to even attempt a bow?

[HH~]

I like diversity of opinion. Almost everyone of ya have a different opinion.
Dont think any are more less or correct than any other.

🤙🏽

HH

[PatM]

Well except the guy who hasn't made a bow yet.

   He is like a woman who has never had a child holding forth on the  differences between natural and c section.

[wstanley]

In the day and age of computer everything, online shopping and everything else. I would think any bow not made with CNC machines aluminum and carbon fiber would be considered primitive. If it's one piece of wood? prehistoric....

The argument of what is more primitive in 2020 is futile at best. Does something made with primitive tools make it more primitive? I don't think it does. Does it really matter how you arrive at the same place as long as you get there?  I often find these discussions hilarious. "Who's techniques are more primitive?" Who cares. Unless you live in a cave without electricity, no vehicle or modern convenience it's all hypocrisy anyway. If you do, how would you know this discussion was going on?

Who cares? I do because its interesting. Walking 8 miles into the wilderness and cutting out a juniper stave with an axe taught me more about the qualities/characterisitics/etc. of juniper than ordering that stave on Ebay. AGAIN, this doesn't make me better than the dude who orders his online. BUT, to say my journey to that juniper tree is pointless because we both ended up with a juniper bow..... well now?  Its all in the journey.

I am not trying to be more primitive than the next hippy dude (joke), its just a challenge and that's fun. Expressing how you make a bow in a primitive way is just showcasing how you make it. Just as many of ya'll will explain the process of heat treating or laminating woods together. We are only expressing our technique because after all this website is called:" "Primitive Archer".

[Deerhunter21]

I like diversity of opinion. Almost everyone of ya have a different opinion.
Dont think any are more less or correct than any other.

🤙🏽

HH

yeah its really cool to look at all of this!

[Deerhunter21]

I would say that i think a bow primitive is is a bow where the creator does not mean to make it complicated, does not mean to put frills on it, does not take shortcuts, and does not ask too much of the wood. he means to make it simple and doesn't care how fast it shoots or how good it looks. in my mind, primitive is when the creator takes his idea and emotion of simplicity and puts it all into his bow.

and thats also what i think makes something special. when the creator puts his idea and emotion into something and even maybe his love of the process and of it.

[The Zen Master]

Well except the guy who hasn't made a bow yet.

   He is like a woman who has never had a child holding forth on the  differences between natural and c section.

What a moronic thing to say; something I would expect to hear from a 14-yr old. I had no clue my inquiry would inspire this kind of defensiveness FFS.

Have a great time with your forum.

[Weylin]

I think the word "primitive" is a crappy word to describe making wooden bows and I get tired of the constant bickering and judgement that gets attached to it. "Traditional" would be a better word but that already has a definition in the archery world. To me, the bottom line is that we have a loose but supportive community of people that like to make bows out of wood and mostly natural materials. I don't see any value in trying to slice and dice that already small community into tiny factions based on small differences in how we make our bows. I think it's totally fine for each of us to have different styles and aesthetics. If someone says they love primitive bows and they make them all with stone tools, that's awesome. Someone like that has my respect. But as soon as that person starts bashing everyone else's work because it doesn't live up to their arbitrary standards then we have a problem. We all do this for our own reasons and I think it's entirely possible for us to share the same community space and support each other's work even if we use different tools and materials. I see bows sometimes that make me cringe on the inside, but I'll never say that to the builder. What's the point? I'll say what I like about it, give advice if they ask for it or just scroll on past it if I don't have anything valuable to say. There are bows I see that I would never have chosen to make but I can see the skill or artistry that went into them and appreciate them for what they are, even if it doesn't float my boat. Do what you like and don't worry too much about how other people are enjoying their craft.