Author Topic: Hadza bow efficiency 70%  (Read 2600 times)

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Offline Mesophilic

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Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« on: February 25, 2020, 09:10:45 am »
I found a published study on Hadza bows and thought some of you would find it interesting.

I'm not a numbers guy...is 70% efficiency accepted,  good, or excellent?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X17303309
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline DC

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 10:53:25 am »
45m/s is about 150fps and 311 newtons is about 70#. Too bad they never mentioned arrow weight.

PS With 70% efficiency, 311 newtons and 45m/s can't a math whiz come up with arrow weight?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 11:02:19 am by DC »

Offline GlisGlis

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 11:47:00 am »
they live in one of the most inhospitable part of the world
I bet their bows are 100% efficients

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 03:53:57 pm »
45m/s is about 150fps and 311 newtons is about 70#. Too bad they never mentioned arrow weight.

PS With 70% efficiency, 311 newtons and 45m/s can't a math whiz come up with arrow weight?

I'll see if I can corner my wife.  Did I ever mention she's a physics PhD? ;D
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 08:53:16 pm »
Arrow is 36 grams or approx 560 grains

« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 11:08:51 pm by Mesophilic »
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline DC

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2020, 10:20:20 am »
So it's sounding to me that 70% efficiency ain't that great. A 70# bow that only shoots a 560 grain 150fps seems a little low to me. It would definitely get the job done and I wouldn't stand in front of it but it's not screamer. :D Fast isn't necessary for them. Durability would be more important.
 I wonder how much the string weighs. ;D

Offline Strelets

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2020, 11:40:00 am »
For a velocity of 45 m/s and an arrow mass of 36 grams the kinetic energy is 36.45 joules. From the available information we can only estimate the energy that the archer expended in drawing the bow. If the distance travelled by the string (i.e. from the string's rest position to full draw, not the "draw length") was 0.43 m (i.e. 17"), the bow had a linear draw-force to draw distance relationship and 311 N draw-force then the input energy would be 66.9 J. This implies that the bow was operating at 55.5% efficiency, or thereabouts.

The original source does not say how their figure of 70% conversion of strain energy into kinetic energy was calculated.

55% is closely comparable with what I get for self yew longbows of around 70 lb draw-weight, and also with what I have calculated from published figures of arrow velocity, arrow mass, bow draw-force and draw length for 140 lb warbows. So, I would say that the Hadza bows are operating at about the efficiency that I would expect for a well-made wooden self bow, rather than the ~70% typical of modern recurves.


Offline Mesophilic

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2020, 09:20:07 pm »
I don't know whst you just said, Strelets, but your last paragraph renews my faith in the Hadza.
Trying is the first step to failure
-Homer Simpson-

Offline aznboi3644

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Re: Hadza bow efficiency 70%
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2020, 09:14:32 pm »
From what seems like they never unstring their bows that efficiency seems pretty dang good to me. From all of the videos I’ve seen of them the bows are always strung and at the ready to harvest food at any time an animal presents itself.  Even in the videos of them hanging out at night the bows are all strung and next to their bundles of arrows. 

I believe in that environment they must be ready to harvest any possibility of food.  Heck they are sharing small robin sized birds between 3-4 people. For lunch.

Taking the time to string your bow could mean going without lunch or dinner.