Knot sure how picky to be?

[Jakesnyder]

How picky do I need to be on pin knots? I've built several bows but working around locust knots are a little more challenging than osage. So let me know if this looks good?

[Pat B]

I'd say you did a good job around this pin. If you are concerned then back it with rawhide, linen or silk but from what I can see backing is not necessary.

[Eric Krewson]

The thing about grain around little pins is that a slight violation doesn't seem to matter, your grain chasing work looks very good.

[Jakesnyder]

Another question I have is, i think there's a lot of controversy concerning ring thickness. So I might not get a straight answer. But if a ring is chased correctly Then is it good? Regard list if it is a quarter inch thick or 1 32nd inch thick

[SLIMBOB]

In general...Osage is easier to chase a thicker ring. I prefer thin ringed Osage regardless. I just want a small percentage of early growth and I am happy at the end of the day.  Elm I am finding different. So it depends on the species I think. No experience with BL.

[bradsmith2010]

in my experience and those I have read about,, if the ring is solid,, a thin one works great,,on osage

[Trapper Rob]

Jake is that one you got last evening

[Jakesnyder]

Yea it's one of them

[Hamish]

When laying out a bow design always compensate slightly in width with any knot even if its just a pin. Some people get away with it(usually on overbuilt bows), but the more stressed a design becomes the more likely the bow is to break at the point of weakness.

[Eric Krewson]

Made a LOT of bows, this pin knot stuff is vastly over compensated for, they are tough little buggers. I don't worry about pins on the edges of bows or a slight grain violations when I chase a ring over them.

Many of my bows have pins right on the edges of limbs, I have never had one fail in 25 years of bow making.

Here is an example;



 

[SLIMBOB]

+1 Eric. I ignore them completely. Even on the edges.

[Hamish]

Osage is a damn fine timber, which tolerates knot abuse better than most(especially with a wider flat limb). Locust can be a little weaker in than osage. It has a reputation for sometimes chrysalling even with good tiller.
I find even with backed bows, a pin is a weak area, in compression as well. I used to ignore small pins in backed bows, until I started getting chrysals at these points, in about  1 in every 4 bows that had pins in the belly wood. Since compensating for pins in the newer bows I never get any chrysals. That little bit of extra time and effort gives me 100% chance of the wood having maximised its durability.

Every so often guys post photo's of a beautifully tillered bows, usually a little short in length, or narrow for their draw length/weight, and a couple of days later they post again with a broken bow(usually in tension). The only clue to the break is that it happened at a pin that wasn't compensated for.

Its great that Eric and Slim ignore the knots, and have no trouble, they are quality bowyers. A newer bowyer may not have as much luck due to not having the skills yet.

[SLIMBOB]

Just to clarify, I don’t ignore full grown knots. Those I compensate for. I ignore the pin knots. Just have found them to be a non issue on Osage.

[bownarra]

Osage is a damn fine timber, which tolerates knot abuse better than most(especially with a wider flat limb). Locust can be a little weaker in than osage. It has a reputation for sometimes chrysalling even with good tiller.
I find even with backed bows, a pin is a weak area, in compression as well. I used to ignore small pins in backed bows, until I started getting chrysals at these points, in about  1 in every 4 bows that had pins in the belly wood. Since compensating for pins in the newer bows I never get any chrysals. That little bit of extra time and effort gives me 100% chance of the wood having maximised its durability.

Every so often guys post photo's of a beautifully tillered bows, usually a little short in length, or narrow for their draw length/weight, and a couple of days later they post again with a broken bow(usually in tension). The only clue to the break is that it happened at a pin that wasn't compensated for.

Its great that Eric and Slim ignore the knots, and have no trouble, they are quality bowyers. A newer bowyer may not have as much luck due to not having the skills yet.

Agreed 100%.
I generally make only stressed bows that I am trying to get every ounce out of. Pin knots are an 'issue', I've had them collapse on osage. Ask your self what the grain is doing in and around a pin? Then ask yourself can grain that is doing that take as much as nice flat, straight grained wood can?
I don't think so
Once you use a lot of whitewood that isn't as abuse resistant as osage you will see that pins are definitely a 'weakness'. Ignore them at your peril haha.

[Eric Krewson]

I should clarify one issue; if the grain snakes around a pin on the edge of a limb I follow it religiously which always adds a little extra wood around the pin. If the grain is straight I go with it, no extra wood.