Citronelle chert hunting points?

[Wolfmanjack]

So I’ve been at this knapping thing for about 6weeks now and it’s finally starting to come together.  I live way down in south Louisiana and there are no natural rocks here much less anything knappable.  I do my hunting in southwest Mississippi and there you can find this citronelle gravel.  My journey here started when I found a few stone points in the creek that runs through our property. I got bit by the primitive archery bug so to speak.  I have a couple of privet bows roughed out waiting to dry and figured I had to learn to Knapp.  I would like to make do with the citronelle gravel seeing as that is what the NA had access to here.  My goal is to eventually harvest a deer.  So the question is, are my current best points good enough?  Another question would be how do you guys have any fingers left?

[Wolfmanjack]

Working on pics

[Wolfmanjack]

https://imgur.com/a/ldCKhJ1

[Wolfmanjack]

Having trouble with the picture posting

[Wolfmanjack]

https://i.imgur.com/SToIyDk.jpg

[1442]

welcome to the forum and to knapping Wolfmanjack
for six weeks into it your points are looking very good.
It's hard to tell much from the pics like how thick they are and if there's thick spots near the edges.
The tips look like they could stand a little more work to be in line and needle sharp. I think that is really important for good penetration as well as sharp edges.

A good test is to stretch out a piece of leather like a work glove, and try to poke through it with the points.
If the tip aint needle sharp to get it started, you will have a hard time getting it to poke through. You can also feel any resistants' caused by inadequate edges as the point passes through the leather. After they are hafted to a shaft you can also feel if the hafting is catching any as it goes through the leather.

I've settled on points that are widest just ahead of the hafting wrapping. By the time the hafting starts penetrating, the blade width has left a slice as wide as the blade making it easier for the hafting to spread out the slice and slip through.
You can sure feel the difference compared to hafting that starts penetrating before the blade edges have cut the slot to it's maximum width.

[Wolfmanjack]

Thanks for the reply 1442.  I need to fashion a tool to do the fine point work and refine the edges a bit.  These are as thin as I’ve been able to get with the citronelle gravel.  Pressure flaking this stuff seems unlikely for me, my flakes just won’t travel very far.  Maybe time will improve my technique.  Any tips for working the citronelle? 

[Wolfmanjack]

New one I just made, how thin should it be?

[Wolfmanjack]

[Outbackbob48]

Wolfmanjack,  points look pretty good for just starting, If ya get a chance check out Ryan Gills video on hunting points and sharpness. I like a 4 to 1 width to thickness ratio but more important is getting them really sharp, and that takes time and experience. your transistion from shaft to stone needs to be very smooth also. Just keep knapping and enjoy the ride, your points will get there just give them some time. Hope this helps, I also like the Ishi style ( side notch) points for hunting points. Bob

[JEB]

What Outback said.  I thin my bases first.

[1442]

I actually used the word thin, but I meant more like the profile and contours.
I don't think a point needs to be actually thin to work well.
Just light edge work with an ishi stick can make a good sharp edge. The flakes don't have to travel very far really to sharpen a edge unless the edge is thick, then they have to travel farther because they have to be thicker to remove more thickness.

That rock should pressure flake with a ishi stick real well. The length of flakes able to be taken are dependent upon the contours and it would be easy to have a flake overshoot and take a plug out of the far side of that point if it had a smooth convexity to travel across.

try grinding a bit more during reduction and see if that don't help your flakes feather out better and eliminate some of the step fractures.
Space your reduction flakes out farther apart and make sure your platform is below center.

[Wolfmanjack]

My rock bashing has continued and these are my best so far.  I think there may be a couple of potential deer killers in there.  I’m working on my edge sharpening with some flakes.  Also some of these will be refined some more.  The two at the bottom are points I found in the same creek where I collected my citronelle from.  Pretty crude wouldn’t you say?  Wonder how refined most of the ancient points were?

[1442]

Your doing good.
It's hard to tell for sure because I can't make out flake scars but it looks like yo have a lot of thickness and convexity very close to the edges and that would greatly reduce the penetration efficiency compared to more tapered knife like edges. Same thing with the tips. They need to feather down to a smooth needle sharp tip.
The artifacts you show in my opinion where most likely dart points or knives, and where much sharper when fresh with a totally different kind of edge sharpness than what you have on your points done with pressure.
It's hard for me to explain the edges understandably but I'll try.
The Indians took those edge flakes at or slightly above center so that the bulb actually cleaves off a portion of the edge creating slight concavities and a knife like edge similirar to a flakes edge which is sharp sharp.
I can't explain it.
If you will Pm me your address I'll send you a couple points to show you what I'm trying to say and I'll send you a piece of deer leather that you can poke some points through to test pokability. You'll be surprised with the results I bet.

Stick with it

[Sasquatch]

Hey great job, considering only 6 weeks.  Answer to your question is, No.  your points aren’t quite “ethical” yet.  Yes they would kill, but the life of the deer deserves more IMO.  Work on thinning, and sharpness.  Your pints look good from the top. But the thickness and edge is where they are lacking.  Your doing great progress tho.  Your stone looks like it could use a little more heat.   FYI if you want to trade some raw Tx stone for some Citronelle, I might be intrested. 

Also: I started with the same goal as you “to harvest a deer with stone and wood”  it took me 7 years to do it.   But I wounded many animals with dull points, lack of penitration, accuracy issues.