Anyone ever build a plains-gullwing style bow?

[tattoo dave]

Where did that gull wing design originate from? I’m sure I’ve read this before, just don’t remember.

Tattoo Dave

[PatM]

Hard to pin that down.  It was popular through the whole mid-Continent.   Also variations are found in other parts of the world as well albeit in longer form.

[Morgan]

The pictures I’ve seen show reflex at the handle and deflex mid limb with the tips being even or just a bit forward of the handle.
 What are the chances that the bows were just reflexed at handle and the deflex is a result of set?

[IrishJay]

Morgan, it is a possibility, but I've seen photos of modern tribesmen making bows, supposedly in the traditional way passed down through their tribe, and they definitely put the deflex in intentionally. I'll look around for the pics, but they used rocks and ropes to form their bends and then let the bow cure in the sun to set the shape.

I think to get a good comparison between an R/D design and a gullwing (D/R?), I'm going to build 2 board bows. Same length same draw weight, same limb width, etc. I'm working on an R/D from a stave right now and I was going to do a gullwing from a stave next, but then I got to thinking that staves are not uniform, and any character or uniqueness in the staves would skew the results. I think working with boards will keep things more homogeneous and give a better "apples to apples" comparison of the 2 limb profiles.

[DC]

It seems to me that it's an awful lot of unnecessary work if there wasn't some gain. I suppose we could use the old archaeological fallback that it was because of "spiritual purposes". Maybe they made them look like gullwings so the arrow would "fly" further. It's a puzzlement  

[IrishJay]

Maybe I'll do the 2 board bows a build along, open to design suggestions, and then do some Objective testing such as speed and penetration, and subjective test such as feel.

[bradsmith2010]

Speed would be a good starting pointl

[Hamish]

Pat M, Gull wings are cool bows. Yes they were used in the times of  repeating firearms, but it didn't work out too well for the Indians.
Its quite obvious that they didn't have the means to design or manufacture their own firearms, and when they couldn't acquire repeating firearms for all their warriors they used the weapons that they could manufacture.

[bassman]

I know of one bow maker who has a theory that reflex handles were the result of D shaped bows taking set ,and losing power.Simple solution was  to heat, and reflex handle to re gain some power. His theory, not mine, but may have some merit. Who really knows if it was done because of that ,and how many times it may have been done, and by what tribes.

[IrishJay]

Well, I ended up with a  cracked limb while flipping the tips on the R/D I was working on, so I'm going to go ahead and start a long gullwing out of an ash stave I have. I'll keep everyone posted on its performance.

[PatM]

Pat M, Gull wings are cool bows. Yes they were used in the times of  repeating firearms, but it didn't work out too well for the Indians.
Its quite obvious that they didn't have the means to design or manufacture their own firearms, and when they couldn't acquire repeating firearms for all their warriors they used the weapons that they could manufacture.

But it seems like most of them still carried one rather than ditching them altogether like many others did.   

[PatM]

Maybe I'll do the 2 board bows a build along, open to design suggestions, and then do some Objective testing such as speed and penetration, and subjective test such as feel.

 Keep in mind the low brace height common to the gull wing.

[Sagebrush]

In target archery a deflexed designed handle makes for a more accurate bow creating less torque. A reflex handle gives you greater speed with a lower brace height but less accuracy and more torque. Look at any recurve bow in the Olympics they are  deflexed sacrificing speed for accuracy.

[Sagebrush]

I use gull wing designs with extremely reflexed staves of oceanspray or Vine maple. I just floor tiller them while still green and then let them finish drying. 66 to 68 inches has worked best for me.

[IrishJay]

Sage, I get what you're saying regarding the balance between speed and accuracy, an yes Olympic recurves are deflex handle. But, all recurves are deflex handle. If bow doesn't deflex at the handle and radically reflex at the tips, it's not a recurve. From a physics stand point having part of the limb forward of the handle wouldn't change the torque about the handle. Torque about the handle would be affected by the distance from the handle to the limb tips, the distance from the tips to your sting hand and the angle between those two lines.