doubtful wood? Fagus sylvatica Outcome page 2: 43#28" ntn 65"

[simk]

Merci Ileroy for the link. Nice site. Yours?

bttw: according to this site your beech is slightly better in compression AND tension than black elder. Surprise surprise. Go for it and report please! Maybe remove the outer ring that has been exposed the weather.

cheers

[AndrewS]

it's mentioned as 8/10 on this site...

https://www.licorneargent.be/les-arcs/facture-experience/quel-bois/

.... and one of the "jury" hasn't build a bow of red beech...

[simk]

AndrewS, it's in fact those numbers that i found interesting:

sambucus nigra
résistance a la flexion: 106N/mm2
resistance a la compression: 55N/mm2

fagus sylvatica
résistance a la flexion: 107N/mm2
résistance a la compression: 58Nmm2

It's also one of the most common trees at my place -maybe one should give it a try   

Cheers

[lleroy]

Merci Ileroy for the link. Nice site. Yours?

no, not mine unfortunately, but I did have the pleasure of meeting them in person to have a look at their bows during one of their "campements" a few years back.
actually user "Dark Factor" is one of them

[AndrewS]

@simk

but the average values ​​of tensile strength and compression strength do not say anything about the suitability as bow wood.

yew for example has a tensile strength of 104 N/mm2 and a compression  strength of 55 N/mm2...
black locust: TS 140 N/mm2, CS 70 N/mm2
and both have long fibers....

red beech is also one of the most common woods in Germany and I like it for building furniture , for flooring or for heating my home

[backtowood B2W]

Yup, that's a nice site, just I don't speak French....
What does 8 / 10 mean?
Removing the outer ring would be difficult, it's about 0,3 mm thick.
A backing ist the faster way I guess.
Anyway it would be a pity to remove or hide the natural stain of the back.
So my way would be to try a trapping towards the belly
B2TW

[AndrewS]

The points are a rating scale ...how the guys of the side assess the quality of the wood.

[bassman]

I have made a couple bows from what ever beech grows in Western Pa. Paul Comstock liked Beech as a bow wood. I have no idea what species he used. He said to make it wide, and long. Mine are 2 inches off the fades to three quarter of an inch at the tips.They are 64 inches long at 35 to 40 lbs.Both took better than 2 inches of set, but are fun to shoot. No backing on either bow.With more heat ,longer, and wider I would have had less.Yellow Birch is supposed to be some of the best Birch to make a bow.I just used what I had that grew local.

[bassman]

Sorry guys ,I thought we were talking about Birch . My mistake. No harm , no foul.

[AndrewS]

There are a lot of trees in the birch family that are top for bows:
Haselnut, hornbeam (carpinus caroliniana) for example.

[backtowood B2W]

Thank you Andrew, seems you know a lot about trees, wood and so on.
Hainbuche carpinus betulus belongs also to the birch family... I'm a bit confused now, thought beech is beech. 
But anyway, I will give it a try, the stave lost still some moisture but it should be okay now...

[AndrewS]

Look at the details.
The trees are itimized in


Order:     Fagales                                  Fagales                                                           Fagales
Family:   Fagaceae                              Betulaceae                                                      Betulaceae
Subfamily: Fagoideae                                                                                                   Coryloideae
Genus: Fagus (beech)                         Betula (birch)                                                  Carpinus (hornbeam)
Species: Fagus sylvatica (red beech) Betula alleghaniensis (yellow birch)         Carpinus betulus (european hornb./
                                                                                                                                                                                       Hainbuche)

Haselnut= Corylus avellana (species), order:Fagales, family:Betulaceae, subfamily:Coryloidae, genus:Corylus

[DC]

Sometimes paying to much attention to the trees genealogy can lead you astray. Take the maples for instance. There are about 128 species some are good bow wood and some are crap. Birch and beech are a full step back in the family tree. Really the only way to tell if it's bow wood is to make a bow out of it.

[AndrewS]

the genealogy says nothing about the the quality as bow wood!
But you can see, that the common name like maple, birch, beech says nothing about the special tree.

[backtowood B2W]

Hi!
Short:
You can make a bow out of it but I would say its not worth it!

Long:
I had it above my oven because it still lost a lot of weight. Wasn’t that dry as I thought. The stave also twisted some more and gained reflexed to 1“.
First I reflexed and untwisted the worst in the outers and ended up with almost 3“.
Considering your thoughts I decided to back it. I used a very thin Nylon and carpenter glue  and was able to stretch and wrap on the limbs the same time. I will never do cloth backings without my wife - 4 hands are very helpful doing this job!!!

Bracing it first time - almost all of the reflex pulled out like I have not seen on a bow before.
Normally I heat treat my reflexe but I was unsure how this wood will take it and also I wanted to make it somehow comparable with my maple Sudbury.
I made it the same length and was looking for draw weight around 45#,too.
Around 20-22“ the lower limb became quiet thin mid limb, because it leaves the handle more reflexed, and the upper a bit deflexed (there is a little knot). Therefor I made some corrections with dry heat.
At 45#@27“ i started shooting it in - worked a bit on string alignment by narrowing the tips and some more strokes on the upper. Not much was to do anymore and I consider this tillering job as one of my best so far.

I didn´t glue up the handle with another piece of wood and left the visible crack surface. Instead I wrapped a push up with cane.
The stain is blu-black ink and was some kind of experiment too.
I´m not so sure about the colors, it´s definitely different to my other bows.
How do you like my new logo ?

I think I have about 500 arrows through it increasing drawlenght slowly to 28“.
The Tiller haven’t change but now I get 43#@28“!
Stringfollow went up to 1 1/2“ which returns in a few hours!
This bow draws soo smooth - I just don’t know if this is maybe too smooth and a sign for hysteresis?
Heavy arrows (my dogwood shafts) are leaving the bow a way better than light ones. The handshock disappears also with that, but there is - hard to describe - a somehow sluggish feeling!?!
So i´m very happy, I found this stave and didn’t  split a big tree into staves.
I will not make anymore bows with this wood.
It shoots nice but considering giving my best tillering job on a twisted one, I’m somehow disappointed by its performance.

Specs.
bh.: 5 3/4“
ntn : 65"
Max. W.: 1 11/16“
W. Tips: 3/8“
Symmetric
Crosssection: tapered towards the belly, Tips rectangular

What do you think? I know a twisted bow is hard to judge especially with fades leaving the handle in a different angle.
Thank you for your replies - I appreciate it!
B2W