where to get nice bamboo backing?

[willie]

any recommendations finding for tonkin?
thanks

[Springbuck]

willie, I don't have a real source for Tonkin bamboo, but plain old moso planks from franksupply.com have never let me down.   They have a lot of different stuff, and the staff is pretty knowledgeable if you need to phone them.

I think trade names get in the way with bamboo, like they do with tropical woods.

 From what I understand, tonkin cane is a very small diameter, tough, straight-sided, small node bamboo (or relative).

 Tonkin bamboo (capital "T") is a strong bamboo that comes from the Gulf of Tonkin area.  Not sure the actual species, but my memory tells me it is most similar to Taiwan Bamboo.   Both are larger diameter and much thicker-walled than Moso.  Taiwan bamboo is used whole for highrise scaffolds in Taiwan.


  What Frank Suppluy calls "Calcutta" bamboo is also called "tropical bamboo" by other dealers and has almost no hollow center.   Another specie called "tre-gai" is a lot the same, close in size, more hollow, but still a really thick wall.
  I bought what Three Rivers Archery called a Tonkin Bamboo backing for my first few backings, but when I bought from franksupply.com, it looked, felt, and worked exactly the same.  I wouldn't be afraid to use any decent diameter bamboo (Tonkin, Taiwan, Black, Tortoise shell, or Moso) for a back, but would maybe look for thicker-walled specie for a belly.

[PatM]

Real Tonkin is not actually that common as a selected bow material. " The bamboo broker" was the go to supplier for bamboo flyrod making.  That's probably as good as you're likely to find but you have to buy a fair amount.   The guy who ran it unfortunately passed and his widow has tried to keep things going but it seems like a bit of a struggle.

 I'm lucky to have a premium bamboo supplier of all types close by.

[Hamish]

Genuine Tonkin cane, that fly rod makers use is really only suited to for backing narrow limb bows, like English longbows. Its the strongest in regard to use as a backing. Other bamboo named Tonkin is just a marketing ploy trying to cash in on Tonkin canes reputation. I don't think its necessarily any one species of bamboo, but they come in diameters too large for real Tonkin. What is marketed as "Tonkin bamboo" could be any number of other types of different bamboos, some suited for backing and others not so much.
 
Tonkin has also been used as a laminated belly timber. I guess planed laminated Tonkin could be used  for a backing as well, if it was carefully made like a fly rod, with flattened nodes, that were staggered to reduce potential weak spots. Its hard to find information on how historical examples were made. Most of the information comes from shooters rather than bowyers. Sometimes they mention no specific type of backing, possibly like fly rod makers use. Sometimes they mention a hickory backing, or a conventionally backed with a full strip like we do these days. These bows were made in the 19th and early 20thC and had a very high reputation, for bows made from natural, woody type materials.

Madake or Japanese timber bamboo, was used for Yumi, Japanese bamboo bows. I also think it was the type of boo that Howard hill used for laminations. Howard made some bamboo backed bows but quickly went on to fibreglass, as a backing and as a belly facing.
I have some Madake that is just dried after nearly a year  but haven't had the opportunity to do much bow building this year. Madake has noticably less pronounced nodes than Moso. It should be good for wider backed  flat bows, as it grows to a larger diameter than Tonkin.

[Bryce]

Carson has a ton of the nicest boo backing available.
Hit up echo archery website.

[PatM]

Genuine Tonkin cane, that fly rod makers use is really only suited to for backing narrow limb bows, like English longbows. Its the strongest in regard to use as a backing. Other bamboo named Tonkin is just a marketing ploy trying to cash in on Tonkin canes reputation. I don't think its necessarily any one species of bamboo, but they come in diameters too large for real Tonkin. What is marketed as "Tonkin bamboo" could be any number of other types of different bamboos, some suited for backing and others not so much.
 
Tonkin has also been used as a laminated belly timber. I guess planed laminated Tonkin could be used  for a backing as well, if it was carefully made like a fly rod, with flattened nodes, that were staggered to reduce potential weak spots. Its hard to find information on how historical examples were made. Most of the information comes from shooters rather than bowyers. Sometimes they mention no specific type of backing, possibly like fly rod makers use. Sometimes they mention a hickory backing, or a conventionally backed with a full strip like we do these days. These bows were made in the 19th and early 20thC and had a very high reputation, for bows made from natural, woody type materials.

Madake or Japanese timber bamboo, was used for Yumi, Japanese bamboo bows. I also think it was the type of boo that Howard hill used for laminations. Howard made some bamboo backed bows but quickly went on to fibreglass, as a backing and as a belly facing.
I have some Madake that is just dried after nearly a year  but haven't had the opportunity to do much bow building this year. Madake has noticably less pronounced nodes than Moso. It should be good for wider backed  flat bows, as it grows to a larger diameter than Tonkin.

  Tonkin will actually back a slightly wider limb and it's probably the best belly bamboo you can find.

  Hill actually made a lot more than just a few bamboo backed bows.  All bamboo laminated bows were his thing for quite some time.

[Eric Krewson]

There is very good video out on you tube about an American supplier of flyrod quality tonkin bamboo  going to the source in China and buying tonkin cane. He watches the cutting, drying and processing to make sure he only buys the best.

2 1/2" to 3" is about as big as this cane gets so if you see a 3" wide, flat slat of bamboo with the nodes and rind that referred to as tonkin cane someone is lying to you.   

[Stick Bender]

+1 Echo Archery ,Carson has premium boo ,nodes are evenly spaced great place to due buiesness !

[Hamish]

I haven't seen Tonkin larger than about 2.5" diameter, so its hard to get a wide piece for a backing, without it having too much crown on the back side, and too much concavity for the core belly side. You might get a backing for 1 &1 /4" wide max after trimming. Other species of boo you can easily find 4-6" diameter stuff, which will provide a much wider backing. Most of the Tonkin backed bows I have seen were around  1" wide or less, used with tropical hardwood bellies like Ipe.

Yes, Howard did make more than a few bamboo backed bows. Its hard to know how many he made. Availability of boo would have become scarce due to Japan's invasion and occupation of China in 1937, right through until 1945. The most popular time for boo as a backing was in the 1940's.  When fibreglass backing strips became commercially available, after the end of WW2, he even backed his favourite boo bows with glass(and possibly glassed the bellies too, can't remember for sure). I don't think Howard started to use Madake until after the war. There was a book published about Howard's bows and other equipment a few years ago. I tried to find my copy, but it must be hidden somewhere.

Yes boo makes an excellent belly material. The Japanese used it on the bellies of their yumis, and on the bellies of GI bows made post WW29(boo was also used as a core and the back). A bowyer friend by the name of Graeme Lomas of Australia, made an osage pyramid bow from  board and glued a strip of  natural boo, nodes intact, onto the belly, facing outwards. The bow was tillered by  removing osage on the back. It was a really nice bow, fast and with excellent cast. There might even still be some pictures out there on the internet.

 From memory not many of Howards bows in the book (or other sources like PA magazine)were the conventional type of boo backed bows, that we are used to today. The design and construction quickly morphed into the familiar Howard Hill type glassed longbow. He still continued to use boo as  core laminations. Even though he used madake, with a relatively large diameter, he steamed then pressed the splits  flat. This meant he could grind the rind and nodes flat without removing the power fibres too much.

Maybe by steaming Tonkin cane and pressing it flat you could consistently get backings suitable for wider belly slats.

[Aaron H]

Carson has a ton of the nicest boo backing available.
Hit up echo archery website.

Do we know what type of bamboo Carson offers?

[Bob Barnes]

All I have ever used came from Frank's in California.  I have never had a problem with it.

[Badger]

  Tonkin cane is extremely heavy , maybe double the weight of osage. I don't believe I have ever seen real tonkin on a bow. Tonkin is also very stiff.

  Franks is near my house and has been having some problems lately. A few months back his shipment came in with mold and mildew and his most recent shipment has the nodes too close together.

[hoosierf]

Carson has a ton of the nicest boo backing available.
Hit up echo archery website.

Do we know what type of bamboo Carson offers?

+2 or +3 Carson has good boo and he tapers it for you. Plug and play.

[PatM]

Carson has a ton of the nicest boo backing available.
Hit up echo archery website.

Do we know what type of bamboo Carson offers?

 Moso.   Most available backing will be that.   

[willie]

Carson has a ton of the nicest boo backing available.
Hit up echo archery website.

Do we know what type of bamboo Carson offers?

 Moso.   Most available backing will be that.

Since it appears that I might need a larger diameter than grows in Tonkin, I should not limit myself to searching for that species.

Thanks for the shopping tips, guys. One of the things I like about PA is that you always learn more than you asked for.