Brain tanning hair on?

[clewis]

I was curious if anyone has had much luck brain tanning deer hides with the hair on? I've never tried it before and have a sweet hide scraped and ready to go. Any tips or advice, this is new territory for me. Thanks

[Outbackbob48]

Clewis, I have never braintanned hair on deer. You probably already know that deer hair is hollow so invidual hairs break easily so go gently . also hair can slip easily if it gets to wet and stays wet to long, Good Luck and keep us posted on how it comes out, Maybe Ed has braintanned some hair on and has some good tips. Bob

[BowEd]

My experience brain tanning hair on hides is not as much as hair off hides but have the same opinion about deer hair like Outback.Hair on hides like buffalo[non hollow hairs] make nice robes.I have done some coyotes and coon too.I have gotten those soaking wet or as a ground cloth in the teepee too with no hair slippage occuring.Once the hair roots have been dried and locked in I have not had any hair slippage occuring.Letting them gently dry over a clothes line or suspended is the way I let them dry.Then scuffing them around after drying to resoften them.That's if they are smoked I might add also.That's a must.
Main thing is to get all of the membrane off the flesh side for brain oil penetration.Other than that finishing is the same with the roping method.A bit more work weight wise to rope but it's up to the individual as to what he wants to do.The experience will tell you something to go on for your next hide.Keep us posted.

[clewis]

Thanks fellas, so my plan is to stretch and soften with a paddle on the frame. I was aware that the hair is hollow and slips when wet, so I think I'll massage the brains in while stretched then try to soften. I've thinned out the thick areas already do hopefully it works. I'll definitely be do a follow along successful or not for educational/critique purposes. Might help someone down the road. Wish me luck.

[BowEd]

That's ok to do the majority of the stretching with a paddle in the frame if brained properly but to get a nice fluid loose robe a bit of roping and stretching will be needed yet before completely dry.Good luck.Everyone has their own standards I guess as to how soft their leather should be.

[Hawkdancer]

Six of your buddies, steaks and beer, and have a zen tanning party!!  Ration the beer, though! . Keep the stretching and roping going until the hide is dry to the cheek touch, then smoke with cool smoke(at least 10' from the fire, preferably more).
Hawkdancer

[clewis]

^^^ This!!! ^^^

[Stoner]

I did my first back quiver with hair on. Did not work it a lot and let it dry flat. Clean the back of any loose brain tanning solution, rolled and sewed. John

[BowEd]

In time Stoner without any smoking or anything to your hide your quiver will run the big chance of getting ate up with hide eating bugs.

[Mounter]

Does smoking hides work to keep bugs off? I know even commercially tanned hides are at risk anymore since they outlawed arsenic.

[BowEd]

It has for me Mounter.Not ever any bugs of any kind on my smoked leather goods.In fact at rendezvous wearing the brain tan smoked buckskins on a sultry summer night even the misquitos stay away from me while bothering the heck out of the rest of the crowd....lol.I force feed the smoke through the hide into the middle layers while smoking.Like this.Brain tan is a rather fluffed up type tan though too to allow that penetration of the smoke.It's actually smoked to water proof the white brain tan leather[otherwise it will turn to rawhide again after it gets wet] really with the added benefit of bug resistance then too.



Now many do just hang the hides inside a smoky structure and do get a smoke color on their leather.I imagine that would and does from what I hear do the same thing.In reality the darker the smoking lends itself to not needing to be resmoked as soon as a lighter smoked hide.Every time smoked brain tan gets wet it should be left to dry on a clothes line or something suspended.Then scuffed around into itself to resoften it.Every time this happens the smoking job done on the hide will get lighter.
Reasons why many moccassins were made from smoke flaps off of old redone teepees.

[Mounter]

I knew smoke worked with  animal oil to water proof... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk because I think your work is awesome  but throw any hair on product in a shed for month  even a storage unit for a few an see...All I'm saying is your stuff stays beautiful, because you take care of it. Any hair on    tanning , takes maintenance to last IMO.

It's why commercial fur coat manufacturers recommend cold storage or cedar closets during warm months.

Sorry my opinions have become jaded over the years. I don't speak out often, I'll go back to lurking...

[bjrogg]

That's all interesting information to me mounter. I hope you don't just go to lurking Ive really enjoyed chatting with you about my bear hide to. I have enormous respect for Ed's work and he is a valuable teacher for brain tan. Not to mention just about anything else on this site. It's great when you guys help us out with all those years of experience.
Bjrogg
PS if I have to I'll PM you mounter you've been a great help. Hope I'm not upsetting you but I really do appreciate your help and replies

[BowEd]

Mounter... No need to feel jaded here.Your experience is far more than mine being a taxidermist.I agree a hair on hide is suseptable to bugs.If not took care of properly.My statement was for hair off hides as it was'nt stated for either.Brain tanning though is not something a conventional taxidermist does.Still not a fan of hair on deer hides for robes etc.though because of the type of hollow brittle hair it has.With mounts I understand it being done.I have a cousin that is a taxidermist.He has been helpful at times for me with relaxants and degreaser formulas in a bottle for sale.With this being a primitive site [sometimes marginal also I've got to admit] smoke does the job for a bug detterant.
For hair on hides possibly using a cedar box.I store my hair on buffalo hides that way and actually out of the box around the house though with no bug problems.They had been smoked good on the flesh side though too.
Hide beetles come from no where that's for sure in every cranny of the world.I once stored a horse hide brain tanned unsmoked in a room and in time bugs did get to it.After fleshing & dehairing deer rawhide I do spray the rawhide down with regular bug spray with a light mist to store if I'm not going to brain tan dress soften it right away.
Your doing fine BJ.I enjoy your black bear hide project on a different thread.
 

[Mounter]

Not jaded against anyone here, just the whole taxidermy business in general. I hope I didn't offend anyone. Over the years I've had little problem when people keep things in a house and clean and inspect every so often. Most problems happen when things are kept in a shop, garage, vacation home etc... even then they can be saved if caught soon enough. For instance, I had a customer put some mounts in storage while selling his home. 3 pronghorns and a whitetail, one lope was over 10 years old and newest was 3 or 4 years old all with no problems... 4 months in a storage shed and moths did their business... one got hit pretty hard the others only minor damage, another month or so and all would have been lost.

He's not mad at me and understands it could have been prevented.. moth balls or a spray of a raid type product would have did it... anyway I agree on hollow haired animals for robes etc. eventually the hair gets dry and brittle, pretty to look at tho.

Hope I haven't crossed any lines