10 gpp?

[Nidhoggr]

I'm very serious Nidhoggr, you know a ton about this stuff and I know zilch, so I really appreciate your insight! 

Oh! Well thank ya! And not a problem at all.  I don't really have the tools to make bows effectively at the moment, so I have decided arrows are more my "thing" right now.  Plus I plan on selling arrows at the renfaire this year.  So I researched the bejeebus out of them to see what all I needed.  Just had a guy commission me today to make him some arrows for his 120lb english warbow with his 30" draw.  So that is my current big challenge. 

[willie]

sounds like you are jumping into arrowmaking with both feet!
Consider posting pics as you go.
Sometimes the best "build along" threads are "learn alongs"

[Danzn Bar]

If someone commission me to make some arrows for a 120# bow I sure wouldn't think of it as a "challenge."   
I would think I could deliver a superior product with no defects.  Good luck with your endvers.
DBar

[sleek]

That 10gpp is calculated for a 28 inch draw. Go shorter on your draw and you will drop the gpp. I started a thread on ut years back, titled something like, 10gpp not effecient or something like that.

[sleek]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/paleoplanet69529/10-grains-per-pound-not-effecient-t49349.html

Found it.

[willie]

thanks sleek

good perspective.

[Nidhoggr]

If someone commission me to make some arrows for a 120# bow I sure wouldn't think of it as a "challenge."   
I would think I could deliver a superior product with no defects.  Good luck with your endvers.
DBar

To clarify: it's a friend of mine wanting them.  We were discussing archery and I told him about the arrows I have been making.  He explained he can't ever find warbow arrows for sale that aren't insanely priced so he asked if I would be willing to make him some.  I told him that while I have not made warbow arrows I would happily give it a go and only charge him supplies.  I refused any more than supplies as i cannot say for 100% certain they will be great or not.  So it's not technically a "commission".  I have a policy of not charging for more than supplies unless I would be willing to stamp my name and therefore reputation on it.

That 10gpp is calculated for a 28 inch draw. Go shorter on your draw and you will drop the gpp. I started a thread on ut years back, titled something like, 10gpp not effecient or something like that.

I will both agree and disagree.  it is calculated at 28" because that's the standard (ie: 50# @ 28").   But if you subtract the 2.5lbs per inch not drawn you still can effectively pull off your 10gpp in accordance with your draw length.  So a 50# @ 28" becomes a 45# @ 26" and you would want 450 grain vs 500 grain. While it's not perfect science as far as poundage loss per inch you will still be right in the realm of where you need to be.

sounds like you are jumping into arrowmaking with both feet!
Consider posting pics as you go.
Sometimes the best "build along" threads are "learn alongs"

I definitely will think on that.  Super proud of my most recent arrow experiment and will hopefully be posting a picture later today.

[NorthHeart]

I draw my 40# primitive hunting bow at 23# and feel more comfortable with the momentum from a heavy 555gr arrow than a 10gpp 400gr arrow.  Because i am mainly a hunter vs. flight or target, i use this 555gr arrow as a constant, on every bow i build.  Perhaps this isnt the best way to judge effeciency, its just what ive been doing.

On my 70# compound bow i draw 27" and shoot a 365gr arrow(which is just over the 5gpp minimum that the mfg recommends) at 301fps, resulting in 73 KE, where as the selfbow goes 135fps with the 555gr arrow resulting in 22KE.  The difference in what goes on the business end of each arrow is as different as night and day, of course.

Why even bring nasty wheels bows into the conversation, i just think its interesting to look at the huge difference in equipment, performance, and then revel at the fact that a selfbow kills em just as dead when used properly

[Nidhoggr]

I draw my 40# primitive hunting bow at 23# and feel more comfortable with the momentum from a heavy 555gr arrow than a 10gpp 400gr arrow.  Because i am mainly a hunter vs. flight or target, i use this 555gr arrow as a constant, on every bow i build.  Perhaps this isnt the best way to judge effeciency, its just what ive been doing.

On my 70# compound bow i draw 27" and shoot a 365gr arrow(which is just over the 5gpp minimum that the mfg recommends) at 301fps, resulting in 73 KE, where as the selfbow goes 135fps with the 555gr arrow resulting in 22KE.  The difference in what goes on the business end of each arrow is as different as night and day, of course.

Why even bring nasty wheels bows into the conversation, i just think its interesting to look at the huge difference in equipment, performance, and then revel at the fact that a selfbow kills em just as dead when used properly

If the wheelbow question is regarding my initial physics heavy post I was just using a handy chart I found to explain.  And there is (hear me out) nothing wrong inherently with compound bows.  I don't like them by any means, but plenty of people do.  I find it to be like playing a game of golf with a handicap:  Yes you are still golfing, but you are doing it with a ton of extra help.  Or fishing in a over stocked pay lake:  You are still fishing, but you are not doing it without severe aid.  To each their own but I feel compound bows are a huge crutch.  But at least it's not a damn crossbow lol.  And even that has it's chance for a debate, too, as medieval crossbows are a vastly different beast than "KILLEMDEAD 2000! NOW WITH A 20X SCOPE! FIRES 4 BOLTS AT ONCE!!".

[sleek]

That 10gpp is calculated for a 28 inch draw. Go shorter on your draw and you will drop the gpp. I started a thread on ut years back, titled something like, 10gpp not effecient or something like that.

I will both agree and disagree.  it is calculated at 28" because that's the standard (ie: 50# @ 28").   But if you subtract the 2.5lbs per inch not drawn you still can effectively pull off your 10gpp in accordance with your draw length.  So a 50# @ 28" becomes a 45# @ 26" and you would want 450 grain vs 500 grain. While it's not perfect science as far as poundage loss per inch you will still be right in the realm of where you need to be.

sounds like you are jumping into arrowmaking with both feet!
Consider posting pics as you go.
Sometimes the best "build along" threads are "learn alongs"

I definitely will think on that.  Super proud of my most recent arrow experiment and will hopefully be posting a picture later today.
[/quote]

You are looking at it wrong. You cant just figure a draw weight at a shorter draw and say thats what your arrow weight should be. It has only 50% to do with draw weight. The other 50% is draw length. A 45@26 as you mentioned is different than a 45@28. Both bows cannot compare equally shooting a 450 grain arrow. Its impossible. A shorter draw length is at a power storage disadvantage and needs a  lighter weigjt arrow proportional to the bow of a longer draw. A 30" draw stores more at 45#than a 28 and a 26. Imagine the difference in performance of a 26 and 30 inch draw all other things being equal. The arrows must be of differnt weight.

[Nidhoggr]

You are looking at it wrong. You cant just figure a draw weight at a shorter draw and say thats what your arrow weight should be. It has only 50% to do with draw weight. The other 50% is draw length. A 45@26 as you mentioned is different than a 45@28. Both bows cannot compare equally shooting a 450 grain arrow. Its impossible. A shorter draw length is at a power storage disadvantage and needs a  lighter weigjt arrow proportional to the bow of a longer draw. A 30" draw stores more at 45#than a 28 and a 26. Imagine the difference in performance of a 26 and 30 inch draw all other things being equal. The arrows must be of differnt weight.

That is what I am saying as well. 

Assuming a 28 inch draw and a 50#@28" bow:
29" arrow, 500 grain with 50lb bow = 10gpp.  On a short draw of 3 inches (7.5 lbs loss for a total of 42.5lbs drawn) the arrow would be too long and too heavy, weighing in at about 12gpp.

Using that draw length of 26" you would want a 27" arrow weighing roughly 425 grains for 10gpp.

We are both saying the same thing it seems. 

[joachimM]

And using a standard arrow weight relative to draw weight allows you to objectively compare the performance of different bows.

For Gf recurves 9 gpp is typically used, for compounds it’s 5 gpp