Is this knapable?

[bjrogg]

         There was a guy selling stones at our fair. He had a few pretty crude arrowheads that someone else knapped. He didn't know anything about knapping.
         I'm wondering what this material is and if it's knapable. It's kinda a shame to knap it because it's all polished and very pretty. I'm sure I can make something from it. I did take a few flakes off one of the smaller ones. It seems knapable but pretty coarse. I'm wondering if heat would help it. I only paid $10 for the whole works. Think If they are knapable I might get them for less before he polishes them. If I remember right he said it was agate, I think from Arizona. Can't remember where for sure but he said it was agate which I believe is knapable. In fact the nicest piece of ever worked I was told was agate, but this must be raw.
        He told me he didn't think you could knap it, if you hit it it would break. I told him so would glass, but if you hit it right it's knapable.
        Here's some pictures if my photo bucket still works
Bjrogg
   

[bjrogg]

If you look closely at the smaller ones. The bottom of the second one has a few short test flakes. There is a cortex around the outside of all of them.
Bjrogg

[Blitzkrieg721]

im pretty sure most all agates are knappable, some more so than others of course. and some DO require heat before they will work. some require a good bit of heat also.

[Hawkdancer]

The Native Americans used agate quite a bit, but I don't know how they processed it to work it.  I bought several pounds in Arizona this summer. And will probably work it as I get stronger in the hand.
Nice looking pieces you have there, they should finish real pretty.
Hawkdancer

[bjrogg]

Thanks blitzkrieg721 and Hawkdancer. I'm thinking this stuff is knapable but I'm thinking it might help to cook it. I might even be able to look back through my old PM's and find a recipe for agate. Kinda wish I'd of gotten this guy's name and number. He said he'd be back next year.
Bjrogg

[JEB]

Got to cook it  BJ and it will knap. I think if any of it is dyed you will loose the color of the dye and the rock will look natural. Be careful, it is thin. I made a special pad for the thinner stuff and quit breaking so much of it.

[bjrogg]

Thanks Jeb, I was hoping you'd jump in here. I guess I never realized it could be dyed, thought it would all be natural colors. Yes it is pretty thin, probably to thin. Might be able to do something with the smaller ones. Really kinda hoping to be able to work something out with this fella for getting some thicker unpolished stuff. I was toying with the idea of making turkey calls from the larger pieces. They might need to be skuffed up a little. I can make them work but not very loud maybe some chalk would help. Any idea what temp. and soak time to cook? Think a turkey roaster will do it?
Bjrogg

[caveman2533]

put it in the oven set it for 450 and walk away from it.  Couple hours later turn it off.
This is my friend does it and rarely looses a piece.

[JEB]

Caveman knows best.  Steve has been around a lot longer than me and knows his stuff.

[bjrogg]

Thanks Steve, Thanks Jeb, I'm thinking I'll try the turkey roaster then. I think I can get to that temp with it and my wife doesn't mind if I use it. She'd probably not like me using oven. I've got a quite a bit more stuff I want to cook now so I think it will work in the same batch.
Bjrogg

[Wolf Watcher]

The one piece looks to be Brizilian agate and it requires some cooking.  450 may be a little too much so I would try lower temps.  You can always recook at a higher temp.  Montana moss agate will cook at 250 to 300.  Agate was one of the favorite materials use by the Sheep Eaters and they were gem quality knappers.  I hunted with agate heads for years in the old days!  Joe

[Zuma]

BJ put them in a window where the light shines through them.
They don't eat anything and really don't knap worth a darn.
With the heat treat stuff and all. If they are only 3/8 " you'll be
 lucky to get hunting point lengths if you want to flake the entire surface.
I have given away 40 or so slabs and have never seen a finished point.
Right Steve. lol
Zuma

[Hawkdancer]

Thanks to all for the info, even though this isn't my thread - I'm trying to learn/relearn as much of the primitive/old ways skills as I can and I have discovered how much knowledge there is on the PA site.
You all ROCK !!
Hawkdancer

[bjrogg]

Thanks everyone,
Zuma I think your right about these pieces. They are really thin. I'm surprised he could even cut them this thin. Still toying with idea of a turkey call or something. I'm really interested in the material though and curious if I can work something out with this fellow.

Hawkdancer I'm glad your enjoying this post. I know what you mean. Many times I've learned more from other people's posts than mine. Gotta love PA.

Wolfwatcher thank for the info. I'm so interested in this because of a piece of "free stuff" I got from Marshall in 2016. Someone had massacred it. It had steps almost all the way around. I had to clean it up from one end and it flaked so nice. I've never worked anything that nice before or since. It was strong enough to make very long flakes yet not so hard to remove them. It also held a very sharp edge. I've got a picture somewhere I'll see if I can find it. I think I showed it to Jeb at Marshall this year.
Bjrogg

[Wolf Watcher]

Looking at the pictures its hard to tell how thick they are!  If they are 1/4 inch thick they can be used.  I used a trim saw to cut the stone to a shape I wanted for a point, heat treated it and only flaked around it one time and put a cutting edge on them. They are small but effective. I gave away several over the years and made jewelry out of them.  If I could post pictures I could show you ones I have glued to pictures.  SStanberry has been to my house and seen the ones I am talking about.  Seems I always cause controversy on the site!  Joe