Tiller Thoughts ? Design & any thing leaver bows !

[Stick Bender]

Thanks Fellas that peace of hedge looks like it came from the same batch that Clint is using on his thread has the same late wood early wood ratio , but keeping it inside sense winter helped too I have been shooting 520 grain arrows threw it this after noon seems to hit the stop pretty good but thats subjective I wiil get numbers when done this is the longest bow I have made in a while forgot how smooth they draw , not much hand shock even with the bricks on the end ,these type bows seem pretty efficient with dumping there energy !

[Danzn Bar]

Looking good so far....the tough part of lever bows is keeping the set down between the fades after a few hundred shots and leaving it strung a few hours. You got a good start, keep up the good work.
DBar

[Stick Bender]

Thanks DB I probably shot close to 90 arrows yesterday let it Marie the string for 4 hrs to , hopefully get the tips down next week end and another 100 arrows threw it hopping to hunt with this one in the fall , Im tempted to get the heat gun out & put some reflex in but promised my self on this one I woudnt , Im hopping I dont end with more set particularly in the fades this is a pretty reseliant peace of Clints hedge !

[Stick Bender]

I'm still at 25.43 oz on mass, calculating Steve's numbers if I  figured  right  I should be between 21-22 oz ,this bow is on the over built side at 1 1/2 in width but most of the mass is in the lower part of the working limb the bow tappers from mid limb  to 1 1/32  at the static fade  I'm hoping to work the static levers down to 5/8 to 1/2 with a flare out at the pin knocks  & thin as much as possible so I'm hoping for 3 oz or better & maybe another 3/4 oz finishing out the handle I'm going to Chrono the bow at this weight later today and post and post Chrono numbers at different weight removal so  I can see the mass principal in action if any body is interested !

[BowEd]

Cool to verify the writings in the TBB book.I've read every 65 grains removed from the tips[I'm assuming the last 6"] is a 1 fps gain especially on longer bows like you've got.On your design then I would say if the levers are longer then 6" and kept stiff yet you could see more yet.
I'm sure with as much as you've got to remove some difference will be noticed.

[Stick Bender]

Yep the levers are 9 1/2 on this one I'm amazed every time I apply Tim Bakers & Badgers theory it's kinda fun ,the Chrono is a good tool for it takes the guess work out mass where it's needed and not where it's not I got the string marrying for another 5 hrs so far so good !

[Stick Bender]

Ok here is the numbers I'm averaging 164-65 ,highs 169 fps I'm going to call it 163 fps to keep it honest it's still new and slightly heavy I shot the crap out of it to get solid numbers very few errors got nice flight and nice relese today so the bow is 25.43 oz b-50 tiller string 509 grain arrow 47.5 lb 29 1/2 draw ,was surprised at the numbers thought it would be slower I'm actually only pulling 29 1/4 but tillered to 29 1/2 so figure 8 fps for FF string plus weight reduction I think I will end mid 170s hopefully I'm trying my best to keep all numbers honest !

[BowEd]

At 20 yards I'm pretty sure your bow will more than do it's job if you do yours for hunting.

[mikekeswick]

Looking at the back profile I'm sure you could narrow the 'levers' quite a bit and not have them bend. Where you have the thickness increasing it would be safe to narrow to 5/8 ths / 9/16ths then into 3/8ths at the nocks themselves. If you don't want to put overlays on such narrow outer limbs a simple side nock works.

[bradsmith2010]

nice,, I agree the tips can go more narrow,,
and that will make the bow shoot even sweeter, congrats, B

[Stick Bender]

For sure on the levers ,in the post above I said I was going to Chrono now at the heavy mass and take the tips down and repost Chrono numbers as I go to show the mass principal in progress I'm hoping for at least 2 1/2 oz maybe 3 oz in them this one is pin knocked so a slight flare at the tips but won't add much weight got another 90 arrows or better threw it today and no additional set I'm just trying to get it real shot in so the numbers are accurate ! This is the most resilient peace of hedge I have worked with yet !

[upstatenybowyer]

Stick, I have no idea how I missed this one. The bend looks great and the numbers speak for themselves. Those  better be on the lookout for you my friend      

[Stick Bender]

Thanks Jeff means a lot to me coming from you , hope I can poke some thing too !

[BowEd]

I feel as though I've made plenty of these to comment here and if and when you make more of these type bows out of a certain type same wood your confidence will get to a point where you will have everything really close or dialed in I like to call it and close to finish at floor tiller and the end mass number will be more revealing to you sooner along with the poundage etc.String alignment by then will be a minor or non issue to solve.Charaterish or straight type bows will not matter either.Watching what happens with the wood removal you are going to do will tell you something that you will remember on a bow you should be proud of.The wood in this case is very good but the execution of the design by you deserves a lot of merit also.
I usually start with wide enough working limbs if possible to adjust the mass by side tillering after setting my thickness taper and things bending evenly but leaving enough thickness to tiller there too which most times is the case.
It's not what everybody does but to me it's fun and does help to zero in on a certain wood and design and I'm just naturally curious to understand what's going on and perfect something as best as it can be done.Improving little things about it along the way.Especially your tillering skills.Then move onto a different wood and design or same design and different wood.I've found that whitewoods most often out shoot osage of this design.Not by much but most times a little.Heat treating being the game changer.
Bow making has a way of making questions in your mind appear for inspiration to make another.The next one better hopefully.
In your case a 29.5" draw length always has to be considered as mine is only 28".More length of working limb is the solution or relief of strain on the inner limbs the way I see it unless someone else has something to add or reveal.
I'm sure other designs on a shorter bow will accomodate the draw length on non backed self bows that remain healthy and safe.A 64" or a little shorter retro bent tipped bendy handle type bow comes to mind by me.The deflex reflex design would be something to consider too.
I did'nt notice length of comment...Sorry for ranting here.

[Del the cat]

Nice performance , I think the long draw length helps, especially with heavy arrows, gives 'em time to get up to speed.
Del