Author Topic: Tiller thoughts ? & shooting in ! & design !  (Read 8382 times)

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Offline tkdHayk

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2017, 09:24:26 pm »
I would probably remove some more wood from the outer limbs (not the stiff part), but the second half of the bending portion of each limb. As it is now, most of the work is being done in the early limbs. that's where it would break if you pushed it. But it does look good.

Offline Badger

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2017, 11:56:30 pm »
   The idea behind that design is good only if your limbs don't take set. Less working limb is always more efficient. The problem with designs using less working limb is that they usually take set. The no set tillering technique is the best way to tiller them out because it lets you know if you need more working limb or not. I always use as little working limb as I can get away with and more often than not I need most of the limb to bend to avoid taking set. I think your tiller looks good. When you test the bow out you can allow about 7 fps for the extra arrow weight and about 7 fps for the b50 string. Once you lighten up the outer limbs you should be 170 or better allowing for those two things.

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 04:29:16 am »
The last one I made the got the levers so light that they where on the verge of bending but on this design I was looking for kinda a flight bow for shooting heavier arrows nothing new all this bow designing has been done before but I wasnt trying to clone any paticular design but I have learned more on this bow in my short bow making experience then just about any other but I still think there is a lot of mass to be lost yet with out effecting the working limb & I think I could still lose a 1/16 on width of working limb & be ok  still  will see I will post when done but want to get it shot in with 500 arrows so the chrono numbers are real !
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 04:00:53 pm »
Ok thanks Steve I appreciate the comments I didn't see your post prior to the last one but the bow did take some set will post the profile when done  I think on the design thread you recommended 43 lb at my specs I probably could have avoided the set following your advice but hope to end up with a decent bow yet & have the osage version coming up to apply what I learned on this
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline loon

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 05:31:53 pm »
If the front view profile is like this (design discussed in tbb3/4), it makes more sense for it to bend more close to the grip? But if the bending limbs have constant width, maybe they should bend more, closer to the tips?



sorry if it's not ok to post screenshots of TBB. I think it's fair use but.. I'll remove it if it's not
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:36:40 pm by loon »

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 05:38:20 pm »
what STeve said,, (SH) (-P

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 02:57:42 pm »
Does any body have a link to Badgers zero set tiller thread ?
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline DC

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 06:04:31 pm »
This is a copy from Stickbow.com

I posted this in a thread a while back and had a good response on it and I often get questions on it so I thought I would dedicate a thread to it. I don't believe that absolute no set tillering is actually possible all the time but the ideal is to strive for it. No set tillering is simply a method of monitoring the condition of your wood as you progress through the tillering stages. Once you do this a few times you will find yourself cringing when you feel your wood start to give up a bit. Their are a few prerequisites to no set tillering. 1. You don't brace the bow when it is still too strong 2. Never! bend a bow any further than what it takes to expose an area that needs work. 3. Understand the concept of side tillering. 4. Be ready to accept that your bow may not be able to successfully reach the desired target weight and still perform as you wish. I like to use this with the mass principle so I know I have enough wood to start off with. Lets say your bow is floor tillered and ready to put on a tiller tree with a long string. The first step is to measure how much weight it draws at a specific amount of inches, lets say you pull the string 6", the tiller is perfect so you take a reading at 6" of 18#. Pull the same 6" about 20 times or so and measure the weight again. Is it still 18#? If not the wood is allready starting to breakdown. If it is still 18# then you are good to go. ( the 18# is just an example and will vary greatly depending on the length of your long string) If you did start to loose some weight some adjustments are in order as the bow will only continue to breakdown even further as you increase the draw. The first thing I do in this case is look for areas on the limb I can increase the bend, if the bend is nice and equal throughout the limb I simply need to make the stave a bit thinner and reduce strain keeping the tiller shape adjusted. Once I have made these adjustments I will need to remeasure my benchmark weight and start over. If you are new Jawges web sight will give you a good plan for when to brace the bow. Once the bow is braced the process starts over, draw the bow say 10" and note the draw weight, repeat that draw about 20 times and nothe the draw weight again, if it hasn't dropped and no adjustments are needed then go to 11" draw and repeat the process of several draws to 11". Now go back to 10" and see if the draw weight has remained the same. If it has not dropped advance to 12" and repeat the process, always going back to the 10" benchmark to see if the weight has dropped. Anytime you have to remove wood reset your benchmark to the furthest point you have draw it so far. Now simply continue with this procedure till you hit your target draw weight. One of the biggest losses of power in a wood bow compared to a glass bow is chalked up to hysterisis in the wood. By keeping the wood in a pristine condition you will be pleaseantly surprised at how little hysterisis wood actually has.

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 04:45:13 am »
Ok thanks DC sounds like a good way to find the sweet spot on mass too !
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2017, 07:34:50 pm »
Well got this bow shooting this week end I ended up at 43 1/2 @29  even with the set I ended up better then I thought  real numbers after 150 pluss arrows  12 gpp 520 grain arrow Im averaging 162 fps I dont have a 10 gpp arrow but it wood be well over 170 fps it has suprising little stack & the f/d is fairly consistent this bow is very quiet & smooth some dont like to post less then perfect bows but I post the good bad & ugly it will make a decent light weight hunter its a blast to shoot these lighter bows & it shoots faster then some of my first couple 50 lb bows !
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2017, 07:35:32 pm »
Tips
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2017, 07:36:04 pm »
Set
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline Badger

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Re: Tiller thoughts ? & shooting in !
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2017, 10:55:15 pm »
  Your performance is great. You can hunt anything with that bow using the same 520 grain arrow.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Tiller thoughts ? & shooting in !
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 12:14:12 am »
That's an A+ I'd say.It'll hang in there.It's harder to do with wooden arrows putting a high percentage of weight forward.Easier with carbides.I think you'd be surprised by the penetration you'd get with 43.5#'s.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: Tiller thoughts ? & shooting in !
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 06:45:42 am »
Thanks guys Steve nothings new but I probably would have never thought about making a bow like this with out reading some of your writings your more of a asset to the archery group then you probably know Thanks ! Im starting to take a real interest in making these lighter weight bows never relliesed  the hidden potential maybe because of my 3 million mile body but they are fun & deadly to and hickory is a good canadate never really understood why some say hickory is a dog of a bow wood after I finish a osage bow Im working on Im going to try another hickory with longer limbs & see if it will hold some reflex I think I could get 170s plus 11 gpp !
If you fear failure you will never Try !