Author Topic: Ocean Spray question  (Read 8867 times)

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Offline DC

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Ocean Spray question
« on: March 29, 2017, 01:34:16 pm »
Have any of you OS types ever tried wrapping the handle section to keep it from checking? I tried hose clamps but I had to keep going back to tighten them as the wood dried. I decided to try rubber strips. You can build up tremendous pressure with lots of wraps. This stave has been wrapped and drying for 8 months and has a minor check that I can live with. I did a half dozen or so staves and this one is about average. Some have no checking. I'm hoping someone else has tried this so I can get the long term results. I'm concerned that the stresses are just building up in there and someday it will pop open. I'm going to leave them as long as I can just to be safe.

Offline Ed Brooks

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 01:40:25 pm »
DC, I have noticed OC cut at an angle cracks more than one cut flat. this is form cutting and drying full staves, not ruffing them out. It makes me wonder if when you ruff one out if you cut the fades long and square them off and seal them to be rounded out at a later date might help. Good Luck! ED
It's in my blood...

Centralia WA,

Offline steve b.

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 10:38:52 pm »
No.  But yours is fully dry and not moving, along time ago.  I'd unwrap it, deal with the checking, and have that thing flinging arrows in a week or so   (SH).
I think you're approach is good and your patience it commended, and I'm sure you know that the rubber is forcing the  handle to move moisture toward the limbs or handle, vs. letting it dry more evenly.  I'd be interested to see the same drying happen with two coats of wood glue instead of the rubber.

I'm watching your work because I'm intrigued with OS and there are not many using it.

Offline DC

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 01:17:31 am »
Steve -The reason I'm concerned is that I've had some staves that opened like a clam, I'm sure you've seen that. After a year of drying I filled the check with a wedge of walnut. It stayed for a few months and then we had a cold dry spell. It split between the Walnut and the OS. I think you posted one like that about a year back or maybe that was Plum.
 Just to make sure we're on the same wavelength the rubber isn't to seal the wood, I use a couple of coats of shellac for that. The rubber is there to mechanically keep the wood from opening up.
 OS is renowned for checking. Now that I cut the limbs to the pith(your idea) and seal the ends I have no problems with checking except for the handles. I've had a 1 1/2" handle open up a crack 1/2" across. If I can figure a way around that it will make for a lot nicer OS bow.

Offline steve b.

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 07:57:58 am »
Yea they open up.  But like Ed says some checking occurs at the taper and so the rubber might act double to help stop that.  I was intrigued by your clamp idea too. 
I had to think back to how I've dealt with stiff handles and I realized that I've only ever done one stiff handle after the handle did the clam thing.  I flattened the handle glued on a hunk of hardwood.  But I flattened too much and the handle popped off.  Shoots just fine without the handle.   :OK

Usually the staves are not long enough for a stiff handle, so all I've ever done was use electrical conduit section to glue in billets.  I did one molle with a take down handle using two especially wide pieces of OS.  I've also filled the clam with epoxy and wrap with leather, and I've done some bendy handles.  So, never pursued the checkless stiff handle yet. 
I know others have and I think the consensus is to seal the whole stave up really well, for like a year.   So I don't know what forces you may be dealing with to allow the limbs to dry faster than the handle.

If you had a stave long enough, and were willing to do a lam handle, you could flatten, kerf, and seal the handle right from the get go and you'd probably get minimum clam effect.  Then when it stops moving fill any voids and glue on a handle.  Otherwise I think you are on the right track with your rubber and clamps, except that I would remove the bark asap.
And its not so much getting to the pith as it is just reducing the stave so it can dry evenly.

Its amazing stuff.  I have a concave belly stave that the string wouldn't align so I abandon it last year.  It was at floor tiller or better.  Recently I wanted to test the tension strength with the concave belly so I bent one limb over my knee.  It went to 45* and took alot to get it to finally break.  I folded it completely in half and it stayed together.   The break looks like a paint brush with a thousand strands of fiber sticking up. 

Offline Ed Brooks

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 11:14:24 am »
DC, I went out and cut a couple pieces last night just to test out my idea. Here are the pic's I put two coats of tb3 on it. I'll keep an eye on them as they dry and report back.  Hope you have a great day. Ed
It's in my blood...

Centralia WA,

Offline DC

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 12:08:27 pm »
Steve- I tried glue on handles and mine popped off too. I'm trying again but this time I'm scratching the surface with 36 grit and not clamping so hard. I'm wondering if the wood densness makes it hard to glue. I don't have too much trouble finding over 66" pieces but I think billets are the way to go because you can find larger dia billets. I do debark but just the part that will show on the finished bow. I do have a few bark on staves kicking around. They are from when I thought the bark would stay on.

Ed- I thought that's what you meant. Do you just seal the end grain? I was going to go get a stave this morning to try that but now that you are maybe not. I've got 20-30 staves in various stages of drying, I don't really need any more.

Maybe comparing methods might be fruitful. I cut them whenever I see a good one. I debark the back with a dullish draw knife and clean it up with some coarse steel wool so it's all shiny. Rough it out on the band saw and shellac the back,handle and tips. Two coats. Then I leave them outside under cover for 6-8 months and then they come into my shop which is heated when I am there. It's somewhat drier than outside. Another few months and then they go into my warm box until their weight stabilises

Offline Ed Brooks

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 02:29:41 pm »
DC, on these pieces I sealed the end cut off and only the short end on the cut off side. not full length say from fade to tip and didn't glue the tip(end) on these as I have them down to the pith.  Hope that's a clear as mud. Ed
It's in my blood...

Centralia WA,

Offline Tree_Ninja

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2017, 11:26:22 am »
Well an angled cut is a larger surface area for moisture to escape.

  I just leave them whole and hope for the best. Some make it others don't.  I think 1 yr per inch diameter is key. I have opened up some OS from over a year ago and the inside bark is still green.  I had a 5 inch diameter stave split on a knot. I might be able to get two bows if I mount a handle. 

  Maybe one day I will try some PEG stabilizer on a wet green stave, it is a common laxative that stabilizes the moisture in the wood.

 Have you tried a dry heat treatment on a super fresh roughed out stave?
 I think best time to harvest is during a summer drought or a cold dry winter day. During the spring before bud emergence there is too much sugar. Harvesting/transplanting anything during flowering is never a great idea, all of the plants resources go to fueling the flower development. Harvesting During the rainy fall and it it is too soaked. Garden by the phases of the moon. You'd be surprised what differences there are between a full moon and a new moon.

Also Ed,
  I like the choice of background.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 11:40:50 am by Tree_Ninja »

Offline DC

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2017, 11:39:50 am »
Well an angled cut is a larger surface area for moisture to escape.

  I just leave them whole and hope for the best. Some make it others don't.  I think 1 yr per inch diameter is key. I have opened up some OS from over a year ago and the inside bark is still green.  I had a 5 inch diameter stave split on a knot. I might be able to get two bows if I mount a handle. 

  Maybe one day I will try some PEG stabilizer on a wet green stave, it is a common laxative that stabilizes the moisture in the wood.

 Have you tried a dry heat treatment on a super fresh roughed out stave?

Also Ed,
  I like the choice of background.

5" Yikes, must have weighed a ton.

How would you apply the PEG?

No, but I have steamed a few and I sort of think that it helped. I've been meaning to steam a whole stave to see what happens but it's just such a long term project. I probably have more staves than I'll ever use.

I noticed Ed's choice of background too ;) ;)

Offline Ed Brooks

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 12:15:40 pm »
I noticed Ed's choice of background too ;) ;)
[/quote]
wet glue, I couldn't put it on the wife's table.LOL   >:D O:) Ed
It's in my blood...

Centralia WA,

Offline shofu

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2017, 01:02:39 am »
Had a thought today DC, what if you opened up the other '3' sides of the handle to expose grain? ends are open in fade, and I know from a stave you gave me that you have opened belly before - have you tried the sides too? 
g.
Cheers,
George

Offline DC

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2017, 11:07:23 am »
Yes, I tried roughing out all 3 sides. I didn't seem to help. I thought it sounded like a good idea too. Dried to fast I guess.

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2017, 12:44:14 am »
Cut in October when the leaves drop, it's cool, and will dry slower. I generally keep them laying on the ground for the first month in my garage....the floor is cement, and cold. I then wait for the first cracks in the ends of the wood, cut those pieces off, and then seal the stave.  Ultra slow drying and time of year, are important in my opinion.
Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline DC

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Re: Ocean Spray question
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2017, 12:11:46 pm »
Sounds like a well thought out method but why wait to seal the ends? If you are after a slow dry anyway why sacrifice a few inches of length? Especially when long OS staves are rare.
 I was stacking mine in a corner outside my shop door under cover for the first month or so but I noticed a bit of mildew on a couple. A little too slow maybe.