Compression Woods?

[Selfbowman]

Wow! I am out of here . This is waaaaayyyyy over my fat head. Arvin

[Tom Dulaney]

I don't believe he used the word scrape. You need to soak a bone in vinegar to remove all but the collagen since it is dispersed throughout. That's what makes it a natural composite.

I don't believe he said vinegar, either. He also did not say that collagen was dispersed throughout, but that it was "surrounded by" a layer of calcium-phosohate tissue, implying bone is similar to antler which has a spongey, soft core.

[Tom Dulaney]

Regardless, you gave me an idea for the Next Generation Bow. Cut out two bone limbs and submerge the surfaces that will become the back of the bow in vinegar for 1 week. This creates a revolutionary new bow material with the optimal combination of a stiff belly and flexible back. Just add sinew. Going to patent this right now, in fact.


.

[PatM]

I don't believe he used the word scrape. You need to soak a bone in vinegar to remove all but the collagen since it is dispersed throughout. That's what makes it a natural composite.

I don't believe he said vinegar, either. He also did not say that collagen was dispersed throughout, but that it was "surrounded by" a layer of calcium-phosohate tissue, implying bone is similar to antler which has a spongey, soft core.

 You know people aren't obligated to make everything perfectly comprehensible on here. Are you the guy who got banned a few months back?

[gfugal]

My recommendation is to quit researching spend the time making money to buy a good Osage stave say 100 plus shipping and build a bow dude. You have the cart before the horse. I don't know you and your skill level with working wood . Working wood is the only way to learn it though. Arvin

Yep. Unless there is some as yet undiscovered super wood out there we're just juggling the known woods with design factors.

I'm not going to deny that yew and osage are the best wood. But what i don't understand is when people here say you shouldn't branch out to different materials. After all, fiberglass is far superior to osage or yew yet we aren't satisfied in making just fiberglass bows. Why can't it be the same idea for lesser known woods? Fiberglass makers shouldn't say we should only use fiberglass, likewise fellow primitive bowyers shouldn't say we shouldn't use other woods.

And i am working on a bow right now. See the "why did i get set" topic. I've made three bows in the last 4-5 months plus going to school full time and workong full time. Researching won't hurt anything.

[PatM]

I didn't narrow it down to those two woods.

[gfugal]

I didn't narrow it down to those two woods.

Right, there are other frequent woods: hickory, HHB, ERC, Dogwood, Maple, Hackberry, Black locust, and others I'm forgeting. I shouldn't have got so defensive. I just get tired when i want to try something new and people say i should just do it how its been done.

[Tom Dulaney]

I don't believe he used the word scrape. You need to soak a bone in vinegar to remove all but the collagen since it is dispersed throughout. That's what makes it a natural composite.

I don't believe he said vinegar, either. He also did not say that collagen was dispersed throughout, but that it was "surrounded by" a layer of calcium-phosohate tissue, implying bone is similar to antler which has a spongey, soft core.

 You know people aren't obligated to make everything perfectly comprehensible on here. Are you the guy who got banned a few months back?

No, I'm not. What do you think about the Next Generation Bow idea? Would that work? Perfectly comprehensible answers are appreciated.

[Selfbowman]

I don't claim to know it all by any means.i do think out side the box. I have some 50# selfbows that get over 170' per second with a 500 grain arrow. You take the same arrow thru a 50# glass bow of the same design you might be a bit surprised. Glass is not that superior. It's the design in the glass bows and the ease to achieve it that makes it more desirable to the bowyers and the manufacturer. There is nothing easy about all wood bows that perform. Young man I encourage you to keep thinking outside the box so to speak. Also it's good to hear about young people working there way thru collage. Mass is mass and the placement of it is where you get the performance. It's got to hold together! So if you hat a barrel of toe nails  and you could mold them together where they would stay together you might have a super bow. I don't know? Keep in mind you are on a forum of a bunch of old farts that have been building bows for a while . We are here to help if we can. Arvin

[Badger]

   There really isnt a huge difference between the modern long bow broadhead record and the wood bow record. 213 meters with the modern and 210 meters for the primitive. They are using a skinny fast flight string while we are using a heavy linen string. Their arrow is about 50 grains heavier which ballances out the string difference.

[joachimM]

I don't believe he used the word scrape. You need to soak a bone in vinegar to remove all but the collagen since it is dispersed throughout. That's what makes it a natural composite.

I don't believe he said vinegar, either. He also did not say that collagen was dispersed throughout, but that it was "surrounded by" a layer of calcium-phosohate tissue, implying bone is similar to antler which has a spongey, soft core.

Hey Mr Dulaney, hold your horses. No need to get too excited either  . We don't claim to know THE truth, we just try to help  .
So as for the bone: the collagen is made of microscopic fibers, and around and between these stacked fibers you have the calcium-matrix. So each flexible fiber is truly surrounded by the hard stuff. Within a bone, you get denser bone at the outside (logic, there it needs to work most) and less dense bone inside, just like in antlers.
Have a look at how bones are constituted https://www.slideshare.net/abraml02/bone-tissue-12606392.
You could demineralize bone (slide 16: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/bonetissue-120419125640-phpapp01/95/bone-tissue-16-728.jpg?cb=1334840382), and end up with a floppy result. It ain't too easy though to get it right.

Do I think that is the cradle of the next-generation bow? Nope. But do try. And if it works, tell us. If it fails, too.

Joachim
 

[BowEd]

Sometimes on here when people ask for advice they hear what they don't want to hear too.If it is'nt liked the thing to do is try it or not try it.We'll still be here.

[gfugal]

I don't claim to know it all by any means.i do think out side the box. I have some 50# selfbows that get over 170' per second with a 500 grain arrow. You take the same arrow thru a 50# glass bow of the same design you might be a bit surprised. Glass is not that superior. It's the design in the glass bows and the ease to achieve it that makes it more desirable to the bowyers and the manufacturer. There is nothing easy about all wood bows that perform. Young man I encourage you to keep thinking outside the box so to speak. Also it's good to hear about young people working there way thru collage. Mass is mass and the placement of it is where you get the performance. It's got to hold together! So if you hat a barrel of toe nails  and you could mold them together where they would stay together you might have a super bow. I don't know? Keep in mind you are on a forum of a bunch of old farts that have been building bows for a while . We are here to help if we can. Arvin

Right, that makes sense, as long as the design is good and it works for the material its going to be a shooter. Its just how easy it is to get the material to work with the design. I'm just saying that other woods could make great bows too, they just will be harder to make work than osage, and i don't think your doubting that. As was mentioned I shouldn't get upset if the advice given isn't what i was looking for. Clearly you guys know what ypur doing, its just that I like to do things differently. Bytheway, those are some impressive numbers. Would it be cool if you PM me a bow that did that?

I would love to see its side profile unbraced and at full draw, as well as the force curve. I am also curious about the tapering of the limb width, and the mass of the bow. What material did you use for your string, and how heavy and long is it? I hope thats not too much to ask. I believe you, i'm just super eager to examine the specs of a real fast bow so i can know what to expect from a piece of wood. For some reason all the bows i've speed tested have come out pretty inefficient. Even the store bought ones, which has puzzled me.

PS heating a bearl of Toe Nails sounds disgusting. The smell would be enough to kill me. Haha i'll leave that task to someone else.

[gfugal]

The invitation extends to anyone who can provide that info for a 50lbs or les bow that can shoot a 500 grain arrow faster than 170' per second. Specifically the sode profile and force curve is what i'm really interested in examining.

[loon]

wonder if dave mead's bamboo horsebow would do

edit: probably easier with a long draw too, like over 31"