violating a back ?

[BSV]

This is a simple question but one I can't find a clear answer to.Does violate mean a nick or a cut through the ring,Does sanding violate a ring? Thank-you Burt

[Hrothgar]

Technically, going through a ring is going through a ring. With some woods it doesn't matter as much as others-osage, locust for example. If its only a nick, or you've sanded a little too heavy and its a concern, adding a layer of clothe or leather  would compensate in most cases.

[PatM]

Think of them as degrees of the same thing.

[Stick Bender]

A non violated ring is one continues ring on the back of the stave any thing that changes that is considered a violation , could be a nick if it goes completly threw the ring ,a cut that goes threw the ring is defiantly a violation , sanding usually does not violate a ring providing thers enough thickness in the ring , a minor nick could be considered a violation of sorts but it can depend on where it's at a minor nick on the outer limbs might not be concerning but if it was is a working section in the limb it might be , knots can be dangerous areas for violations , chasing a ring was pretty scary to me the first time I did it  but it's actually easer & more enjoyable then most books would make you think in my case I'm speaking to osage & BL hope that helped.

[BSV]

Thank-you that was what I needed to reassure myself that my thoughts were correct, Degrees of the same thing.....I really like this place....Burt

[George Tsoukalas]

"Does violate mean a nick or a cut through the ring." Yes, through the ring for me.

"Does sanding violate a ring?" No, not unless it goes through.

At least that's the way I've always looked at it.

Jawge

[Pappy]

"degree of the same thing" I like that. I try not to nick or even disturb the ring I want for the back, most of the time a little nick on a light sanding don't matter as long as you don't go through to the next ring, it just thins the ring you want for the back, but strive for perfection , hard to achieve most times but always try.
 Pappy

[Marc St Louis]

I split this topic so that the discussion on violating backs that Jack seems to think is a good idea can continue, for now, without hijacking BSV's post.  Keep this topic on track please or else

[Hawkdancer]

Grain and growth rings are the same beast at different angles?
Hawkdancer

[PEARL DRUMS]

My reply got stuck in the garbage on the other "thread".


To answer your question, Burt. I consider a violated ring a ring that is damaged through to the next ring. I prefer that doesn't happen though. A properly designed bow with a clear, clean back will outlast any violated back bow 10 to 1. I've broke enough bows to know why bows break, poor back condition is the culprit most often.

[BSV]

Thank-you guy's I just noticed the topic had been split,Burt

[osage outlaw]

I experimented with violating the rings on a very low quality thin ringed osage stave at the Classic last year.  The bow was never meant to be made into a shooter.  It was 90% early growth and felt like a wet noodle when bending it.  Some of the discussion on this post was guys that thought they could have turned it into a decent bow.  It broke at 32" I believe and it wasn't due to a ring violation. There is a video on one of the later pages that show it breaking.


http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,56848.0.html

[Stick Bender]

Hey Clint if you had of violated the ring you could have made 34 in. 🤔

[Hawkdancer]

I guess I am not sure what is being said   Can some one post a picture of a " clear" ring and a "violated" ring?   I don't have a lot of expertise flexing wood, other than what I have read.  When I do start to make a bow, I will try to find a good hickory blank.  And a mentor here in northern Colorado -raise your hands:) .  I will bring the beer.
Hawkdancer

[osage outlaw]

Check out the Ferrets build a long.  It has some good pictures of chasing a clean ring. 

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,38381.0.html