Red Oak bows keep taking too much set. Druid's bow

[Dictionary]

Since getting relocated to eastern NM, I've been using red oak exclusively(nothing else here) to get back into bow making. I can't get this stuff to bend without taking way too much set. Is it the Red Oak or is it me?

I've been tillering by either using only a mirror or using a tillering stick with a straight edge out to about 20 inches of draw then using a mirror till final draw. Bows keep taking set regardless of how I do it.  Decided to make one more D bow, since i couldn't bring myself to making a handle bow despite my earlier rant about them(just didn't feel right to me). I WAS VERY CAREFUL ABOUT NOT STRAINING THE WOOD, PULLING ONLY TO DESIRED WEIGHT, WATCHING FOR HINGES/STIFF SPOTS. Here's what i got....

This tiller looks about right for me. Full compass/circular tiller, bendy tips. I may be holding it not in the center. I haven't wrapped a handle or finished it yet. This one is 69 inches tip to tip pulling only about 42#@28 inches. Backed with a strip of linen because the grain wasnt great.




Set is close to like 2 inches.




Here is an even longer one. 71 tip to tip pulling 51#@28 inches. This one's tiller isn't particularly good. Has stiff tips(something I don't bother doing anymore). Would have been better tillered with bendy tips and more bend midlimb. But it bends evenly and shouldn't have taken this much set at that length of wood IMO. GRIPPING IT A BIT TOO HIGH ABOVE CENTER IN PIC. Elliptical tiller may have been better for this long of a bow, but I find the circular one easier to picture in my head and design.




Set is excessive.



Front Profiles. Simple design. Handle widest part of the bow. Last 10 inches or so taper to the tips.




MY SOCKS DON'T MATCH. I NOTICED. And you get a beautiful view of what Eastern New Mexico looks like in the background  No bow wood. Any help or critique appreciated. Happy Labor Day


Dic

[Academonicon]

I can't answer the question, but I can say I've had the same experience with oak.  My hickory and osage bows have also taken a little set, but nothing like what the oak and maple ones have done.

[Stick Bender]

I have never had much luck with read oak the last one I tried was one of my better tiller job bows but it ended up snapping on the tree it was a 66 in bendy the other was a pyramid cracked that one was designed to narrow , I had herd from others that the kiln dried boards from some of the big box stores in this area were very brittle and from the inside look of wood I believe it ,it was very dry but I have a red oak stave in the shop may try some day ,just collected much nicer wood so never tried it yet  I still have a really nice grained red oak  board out there too but just kinda gave up on red oak but that's just me I have seen some nice ones posted here.

[SLIMBOB]

Just a few thoughts. Your a bit too round in the handle imo. If your set is near the center, that's where you can fix a bit of it. Less bend there and a little more outboard. Some experimentation may be in order. Not a fan personally of red oak, but wider and thinner may help some as well.

[JW_Halverson]

Yeah, I get set in red oak bows, too.  Doesn't seem to matter what length I make 'em or how carefully I exercise them while tillering.  Take it for what it is.

On the flip side of the coin, your tillering is getting pretty dang good.  So go ahead and puff out your chest and strut a little, if that helps!

What part of N.M.?  I lived in Tucumcari for a little while once upon a time. 

[Dictionary]

Slim I agree that the second bow bends too much in the handle. Outer limbs are a little too stiff. I think the first one is tillered exactly as I'd want a D Bow to be though. Slight flex in the handle. Went and shot the first one about 50 times. No noticeable handshock. Second one has a bit of handshock due to outer limbs/tips being a little too heavy.


JW- Clovis, NM. About an hour and a half from Tucumcari I think. There aint shit out here man. Im sure you know. The sunsets are nice I guess.


I notice that the Red Oak starts to take set immediately upon stringing after the long string is good. I'm of the opinion right now that it is just a really crappy bow wood. Seen some good Red Oak bows on PA though, so idk. Maybe wide and thin is a better design like Slim said..

[bushboy]

Not all boards are equal within the same species. The heavier boards with a waxy texture seem to be a bit better.what slim bob said,maybe goggle Tim bakers mantra and that should help with set.flipping the tips will help with performance but will place extra strain on the back to an uncertain end?heat treating will do the same.2" of set on a ro. Board is not terrible though.

[Eric Garza]

I second above comments, both about oaks naturally taking more set than other woods and a need to moving the bend away from the handle and into the limbs. I'd also suggest making oak bows a bit wider, and perhaps heat treating them if you have the capacity to do that. It can help.

[PatM]

It's actually mostly because of your tiller. The bow is taking set where it's most strained.
  However you shouldn't take total set as a judgement as to whether your bow is any good or not.

[Dictionary]

Is a bendy handle bow that is not flat when drawn incorrectly tillered? That seems to be the consensus. These bows are much more circular than elliptical. I can see this becoming a problem if handshock arises, but i don't see why it should cause set. There is less strain on the outer limbs since the inner limbs are working a bit more. This would lower strain on the wood rather than increase it, I would think.

[PatM]

No, the bow is bending too much in the handle.

[SLIMBOB]

I would say in this case it's less about your tillering and more about design. That's not said to contradict Pat in any way, as tiller is part of the design. I think your tiller looks pretty good. Better on the second and it took set as well. That tells me you could not have done much else at those dimensions with Red Oak and improved on it much. You need to tinker with the width of the belly some. At the same time, and guys may slap me around for this, but circular tiller may look pretty, I don't find it to be ideal on longer bows. I want the bend outboard more so. Short bows will for me get a more circular bend, but at that length, no sir. Just a little flex. Your bows looked good 3 years ago, bend wise. Even better now. You gotta either change the design, the wood, or learn to embrace your inner set. 😁

Check that. Better on the first.

[loon]

Moisture?

back not trapped?

It looks like the handle is bending more than the rest, which would mean more strain?

You can't find white oak? No hard maple? No lumberyards?

[willie]

This would lower strain on the wood rather than increase it, I would think

yes it would in a overall sort of way, but strain can be localized along a bow limb, or in the handle area as the case may be.

a similar bow that I built a few years ago gave me the same sort of problems, and seeing at 20", what will become a circular tiller @ 28" took a few tries. tracing the first and second  bow curves ( @ 10", and @ 20" ) on a piece of sheetrock will make the third to easier to see as you are tillering out.

[bubby]

With the profile mostly parallel and then narowing to tips you should have a more elliptical tiller imo