A classic bow experiment

[osage outlaw]

That's all you got Pat?  I'm disappointed.

[osage outlaw]

Oh, I don't know about that....

It was the worst possible quality of wood and was violated through 10 rings or so on the back and it held up to over 30" draw for a 66" straight bow.  I'm not sure what other woods could handle that. 

[PatM]

 At 30 odd pounds? Elm, Hickory, probably Ironwood.  Of course it's harder to judge what is "bad" quality in some woods until you start bending them.

  I had a featherweight Elm stave that my intuition said was poor quality and it has been shooting at over 30 inch draw for about 10 years. 

[osage outlaw]

Was the back violated through multiple growth rings?

[PatM]

No, not that one although someone dropped it and gouged the back and I sanded the gouge out and kept shooting it. Certainly it was through multiple lunar rings.

  I have  radiused the back of  a HHB bow through multiple growth rings with the intention of rawhide backing it and deliberately broke it at well over 30 inches though.

  Few people deliberately break bows but when you start doing that it is surprising how far many will go.

 Manny broke a couple of Guava bows at around 40 inches of draw.   

[bradsmith2010]

ok since this is still going I will chime in,, oh boy,,
I realize it was a successful experiment ,,, did anyone ever shoot the bow,,,???

[wizardgoat]

I tried to break a 42" vine maple bow that had a weak spot.
I pulled it past 30", and it didn't break. Took a little set though...

[osage outlaw]

ok since this is still going I will chime in,, oh boy,,
I realize it was a successful experiment ,,, did anyone ever shoot the bow,,,???

Nope.  I never finished shaping the handle or tips.  It wasn't worth doing that work.

[PatM]

Did you get to shoot the bow that inspired trying this?

[osage outlaw]

No but I could tell that it was well used.  The shelf showed lots of wear.  The ratio on that bow was much better than the stave I used.  His bow was normal osage dimensions.  Mine looked like a 90lb bow.

[mullet]

I can't do quotes, but I had a Manny Guava bow That came to me with 4 fretts and everytime I pulled it , another one would pop up. It's in my garden right now. I had another one that Ryan O' gave me at the Classic one year that is holding up one of my pineapples.

But, the toughest piece of wood I've ever seen is Casarina, Australian Pine. Parnell brought a little bow up to my house one weekend and I tried to break it. it did around 35" and 50#. We left it leaning against the shelf with the top limb folded over, didn't break, just collapsed. We ate lunch , came back out about an hour later and it had recovered to
, almost it's previous form. But still broke. Hell'aseous, interlocking fibre in that wood.

[PatM]

Are you saying Manny and Ryan can't make a bow? 

[paulsemp]

Since when is a man not allowed to do what he wants with his own wood

In all seriousness though all the guys that are questioning his motive haven't you ever just had a piece of wood that you knew would never make a bow? Happens to me all the time and I don't hesitate to break or burn. If I'm following this right he saw a guy that had a bow  with thin rings and multiple violations that was finished with super glue. He tried to copy the same situation but the piece of wood had no cast on it....

I love super thin ring Osage but some of it is complete junk. Just like some thick ringed Osage is complete junk. If you've ever sat down and cut up 60 to 80 staves in one shot you'd soon realize that not all Osage created equal.

[osage outlaw]

Well said Paul.  Most of the time if you cut a good looking tree it will be good bow wood.  Besides this experiment bow I've had 2 other times where I tried making a bow out of osage that I knew was terrible quality before I started to tiller.  One was the super curly grain.  It cracked while checking the weight.  The other time was the bow that had the bullet stuck in the knot.  I had to make that bow over sized to keep it from breaking.  I could tell it was junk when I was chasing the ring.  the late wood felt dry and crumbly like early wood.  I only shot that bow a few times and put it away as a wall hanger. 

I cut and split a lot of osage staves.  I feel I am a pretty good at judging the quality of a piece of wood.  If I thought that violated bow was worth finishing up I would have done it.  The grain violations on the back would have been very cool looking under a glossy finish. 

Paul, I'm liking the thin ringed stuff more lately.  When I first got into bow making I started cutting a lot of osage.   I burnt piles of staves because they didn't have thick rings like some of the books recommend.  I didn't know any better at the time.  I wish I had all those back.

[mullet]

Not saying that at all, Pat, you must have pulled your thin ringed, Osage spoon out. Ryan made the guava bow for me as a gift one year at the Classic. Shot it all weekend, got home and it broke the first shot. I was really bummed out, it was a great shooting bow.  But, I was disappointed in the other bow. I left it in Tenn.

I'm not impressed with Guava, yellow or strawberry.