how do you glue on handles?

[joachimM]

Hi folks,

I regularly have staves which don't have the thickness for a self handle, just enough for the upper limbs. Since I don't want a 1.5" wide arrow pass I need to glue up a handle in order to narrow the stave to shootable proportions.
Lately I've been having trouble with a 4 cm wide plum branch that I split in two (to get two bows). One of them is a 63" 50# crowned bow with flipped tips. I flattened the handle area as well as I possibly could, and glued a matching piece of flat hardwood to it, tapered the edges, but the handle keeps popping off (even tearing the handle wood apart) when I draw it.

If I just glued a piece of cork to it would bend too much in the handle. Should I gradually build up the handle in separate laminations?
I did a quick search on the site for tutorials or so but couldn't find anything matching my question close enough.
Any tips and tricks regarding glue, clamping, preparing surfaces (how to get them perfectly flat and matching), ... are appreciated.
Thanks for your advice

Joachim

[ajooter]

If the handle s bending that much then it's probably too late for a glue on handle.  Cork is probably your best bet for building up the handle.  You can try thinner laminations..they would stand a better chance of staying then one monolithic block.

Good rule of thumb is to leave an extra 1/4" of thickness at the handle area where your going to glue on a riser piece.  That extra 1/4" will keep your handle from popping.

[Knoll]

Yep, what aj said.
In my experience, glue-on riser needs to be added before roughing in limb thickness. And riser's fades tapered into limb's thickness. Riser can't just "lay" on top of limb, if that makes sense. Otherwise riser likely to pop off.
Friend on this site recommended 1st pc of my risers be thin. Then glue on the thicker riser piece or several thin pcs. Not had a riser delam since taking that advice.
Good luck!

[Eric Krewson]

Nope, you can glue on a handle at any time. It is the way you do it that makes it a keeper or one that pops off. Sometimes I make a handle that just doesn't fit my hand right, I cut it off and start over with new wood.

I glue on handles on most of my bows because I use thin staves, billets and belly splits to get the most out of a tree.

I do like to have at least 3/4" of wood thickness before I glue anything on. I have only used Urac or Unibond for glue so I don't know how well the others work.

Start with a couple of 1/8" thick pieces feathered well into the faded and build up with a thicker piece after you have your shims in place. I have never had one pop off done this way. If I have 1" of thickness in the handle I may use one shim or none but I avoid abrupt transitions into the fade.

Notice how thin the bow wood is under this handle; this was caused by a daydreaming bandsaw operator. The fix worked just fine and the bow is still shooting today.

[Josh B]

In situations like your describing, I use a toothing scraper that i made out of a sawz all blade.  I filed the teeth of the blade to even triangular shape and clamp the bow into a piece of angle iron to use as a guide to cut the ridges straight and do the same thing with the riser piece.  If you do the ridges right, the riser and bow should mate up perfectly and provide a much more substantial glue joint.  You still need to taper the riser into the fades, but the improved glue joint will hold up where a regular flat glue joint will not.  Josh

[Springbuck]

Cool idea GunDoc.

Joachim, basically, you can't just slap a handle riser on a bow that would otherwise bend through the middle and expect it to stay without doing a little more to MAKE it stay.

  First, like with board staves and what Eric is doing, you don't need to leave MUCH extra thickness under the handle block, but you really need some.  His trick of adding thinner individual lams seems to work pretty well, too. The thickness adds up fast.

 Example: I see lots of young guys here and elsewhere trying to make a board bow.  They cut out (or intend to) a red oak pyramid bow, 2' wide with a narrrowed handle from their 3/4" thick board. They are intimidated by all the scraping and unsure of their skills, though, so they get someone with a tablesaw or planer to thin the whole thing to 1/2" or less to get closer to intended draw weight.  See?  Now of course, the handle is both thinner and narrower than the limbs and it would break there, and absolutely will bend more than anyplace else on the bow.  So, they glue on a waste piece for a handle.  But, the leverages at that too thin, too narrow spot are MIGHTY strong, and it's a total crapshoot whether that glued-on handle piece will work, especially if the fades are not perfect.

So, in this case they need to leave the board 3/4" thick under the handle, thin the limbs to 1/2", then glue on the block and plan on establishing fadeouts.  As in Eric's case, sometimes using those thinner slats will work.  Sometimes I have to thin the limb further, glue on the handle, then pike the limb and make a recurve.  If I can't narrow it and it flexes at the handle, I make a soft handle of cork or layers of leather that will fill it out, but flex (not a good option for narrowed AND thin). 

With a crowned stave like you have there, I HAVE had success using a TIED on handle or stack of laminates, even if the handle is narrowed and thin. You have to run this up onto the limb past the flares and tie it tightly so it acts like a fadeout.  This worked for me on bamboo bows made of slats.  On very LIGHT board bows, I have used dowels to pin the handle on, but run them through the strongest parts at an angle, or they will pop off anyway.  Back to front like this   \\  //, not at 90 degrees.  And, I wouldn't trust this on hunting bows.

[Knoll]

I see lots of young guys here and elsewhere trying to make a board bow.  They cut out (or intend to) a red oak pyramid bow, 2' wide with a narrrowed handle from their 3/4" thick board. They are intimidated by all the scraping and unsure of their skills, though, so they get someone with a tablesaw or planer to thin the whole thing to 1/2" or less to get closer to intended draw weight.  See?  Now of course, the handle is both thinner and narrower than the limbs and it would break there, and absolutely will bend more than anyplace else on the bow.  So, they glue on a waste piece for a handle.  But, the leverages at that too thin, too narrow spot are MIGHTY strong, and it's a total crapshoot whether that glued-on handle piece will work, especially if the fades are not perfect.

And one who's not so young!   

[willie]

Joachim

have you tried to build up sisal on the back?

[joachimM]

Thanks folks for the suggestions. Wil try with laminations like Eric K suggested.

How about the glue surfaces? Currently, I have baby-bottom smooth surfaces on belly and lam and I use water proof wood glue (something similar to TB3), or sometimes polyurethane wood glue, but maybe the surfaces should be a bit rougher to give at least tiny pockets for the glue to adhere to?

I have used a built-up layer of flax for the same purpose, but it's not very attractive on this very pale wood. Sisal has about the same color and once sanded it could just fade into the rest of the wood.

Joachim

[Eric Krewson]

I use a toothing plane iron to rough up my glue surfaces, in the picture you can see the little cuts at the ends of my handle pieces.

[k-hat]

I did laminations on a hickory bow on which was havin the same problem.  About 1/8" each as EK describes.  Worked like a charm.  It was actually a trade bow I sent east somewhere.  Look at it as a chance to prettify the bow, using contrasting woods that might not normally make a bow. 

[bubby]

Just rough it up with some 60 grit sand paper

[Hamish]

To stop handles from popping off, you need a glue like uni bond, resorcinol, or an epoxy that dries rock hard. Most hardware store epoxies are too rubbery, and the glue line will break down at the fades/dips. Same thing happens with titebond 3 in most cases.

[GB]

Once I get the mating surfaces as perfectly flat as I can, I sand them with 60 grit and glue them with Unibond.  I've never had one pop off.

[madmonk]

If you have hardwood veneers, you can cut these into shapes that will give a layered foundation, directly on the belly at the handle site. By shortening each "leaf" of veneer, you can even make the fades; sand the 'points' or 'steps' of the veneer layers down smooth when dry. Several layers of veneer will stiffen that area enough that a thicker handle piece will not pop off later, and if you use contrasting colors of wood veneers, it looks great, too.