osage and sap wood

[riverrat]

in Jim Hamms book encyclopedia of native american bows arrows and quivers vol 2 are museum specimens of Kiowa bow with sapwood and bark in tact osage bow, many other osage bows with sapwood. its not only possible, it was done!  some were taking down to the heartwood, some were not. thats fact.

[bradsmith2010]

from what I read,, everyone agrees bout that

[Pappy]

Sap wood is fine and I am sure it was left on a lot of bows, especially saplings, but I would still chase a ring if it was me and I bet they did also. Who knows  As far as bark I have tried that a few times and it never worked at least not long. It dries much quicker and the either cracked or popped off.
  Pappy

[bradsmith2010]

I tried bark one time, it cracked and made the bow fail,, so I did not try that anymore,,once bit ,, twice shy,,,
as far as chasing a ring,, I am sure there were variations on that as well,, I feel like a bow could be drawn further with one ring on the back,, I have a bow here that a friend made with very very thin rings,, he left the sapwood on the back and it is very violated,, never broke,, overstrained the bow so hard that it fretted the belly,,Osage,,, but the back held,, sorry bout the ramble but,,,I plan to sinew back it,, scrape out all the frets and see what it does,,,leaving the sap wood back as it is,,

[Oglala Bowyer]

In my own personal experience I've never had any of my sap wood osage bows give way  .  On the other hand, I've chased rings on them as well, but mainly because the sap wood was jeopardized.  Just my own two cents.

[Pat B]

Here is a "pole" bow I made a few years ago. It was from a 2" diameter pole, sawn in half and 2 bows were made. I usually rawhide back these pole bows just for safety sake...
 

[loefflerchuck]

riverrat, if your talking to me, I'm not sure what your talking about. Read my post again. I've made a few sap backed osage and 2 sap backed black locust. I still chase a ring. Are you saying you don't?

[dantolin]

I always chase a ring too. Sapwood if it's a sapling, and heratwood if it's a stave from a log.
I find very interesting the methods decribed by Sprinbuck. I will try them!

[Spotted Dog]

Pat, I have an osage pole like yours. I am going to work it down with a scraper to get bark off. Not enough heart there to remove sapwood.
Even then if I violate a ring in it I will go down another and back it.
Chuck that is what I believe you meant.

[Spotted Dog]

I had to stop. Making applesauce and forgot it 
Chuck you have on your site an osage bow with sapwood. That is one thing that got me thinking.
Good Talk.

[Pat B]

If the pole you have is whole, saw it down the middle, lengthwise and bind it back together with spacers between to allow air flow. If it is new, it will help them dry faster, keep the halves from going into reflex and keep them from twisting. You can add reflex easy enough later if wanted.
This will give you 2 staves so study the pole well to be sure you get the staves with the best possible back.
  I made the handle riser with thick shoe leather. Most of my bows bend slightly in the handle at full draw.

[Spotted Dog]

I split this thing years ago . It is straight and begging to be worked.

[crooketarrow]

 I know through CROOKETARROW the IROQOU'S did they also tied down the sapling in trees to add refex. Same as I do staves today. But I use saw horses and a rachet strap no tree's.

  Crooketarrow use to say.

  I've gave him a few osage staves. He was use to hickory,elm any white wood sapings. He had 100's seasoning in his shop. He loved osage and said it was talked about alot in his granddadys day.

  He used the same tools as he would with any bow sappleing. DRAW KNIFE. BIG BUCHER KNIFE SCRAPER, SAND PAPER. He worked them all down just like a stave bow.

[loefflerchuck]

Thanks for the pictures Pat. I've been studying them a bit.

Last summer a friend of mine had a job clearing out and replanting a yard in a nice neighborhood in Salt Lake City. He called me and said they were cutting down trees that people told him were rare and valuable. He did not know the name. I showed up and it turned out to be osage. I found out they were planted 90+ years ago for cattle block. I took all the trunks I thought I might be able to use. Got a dozen or so 48" and under staves but the long ones were all so close grain they looked like high altitude valuable yew. Not just that but the grain was also rippled(curly). I did however also get about 10 pole branches that will make great bows like the one you posted. I already split a larger pole and removed the sap sides and it just has a sap back. After looking at your bow I'm inspired to split the smaller ones now.

[Spotted Dog]

I chased a ring in the sap wood. Colors were all together different. Outer white as snow and one down creamy
yellow. You could tell by the sound too. Crunchy to smooth sound and feel.