Plains Indian arrow weight

[killir duck]

Thanks guys, lots of good stuff.

So I'm sure they at least hand spined the shafts and grouped similar ones together, same with weight right?  Maybe +/- 30 grains? to achieve accuracy your arrows have to match at least somewhat close. Maybe a more important question is what were the typical hunting ranges? Your arrows don't have to be perfect for 10 yards but for 40 they better be pretty good. Another thing to think about is these short bows are really tough to shoot well at extended ranges, maybe only 8-12 yards was normal hunting range, even now the average shot on deer is shorter then you would think I believe it's something like 17.6 yards. It's tough to get a bow drawn on a deer when your that close, of course a bow that's 44"  and 22" draw is a lot easierer then 69 and 29.

Maybe I need to hunt with my plains bows this year.  Duck

[Pat B]

Here is a set of arrows I made to hunt with in 2009. There are two sourwood shoot arrows and two hill cane arrows.
 

with 4 different fletch styles...


...and 4 different style and size stone points...


They all shot well from my 56#@26" bow, whichever bow it was. I probable had a few other arrows with trade points and a fluflu in my quiver that year. Arrow weight was around 550gr to 650gr. and were 29" to 30" long(for my 26" draw)  It probably doesn't seem to be close enough match to shoot well but I wouldn't hunt with them if they didn't shoot well from the bow I was using. Also I make my arrows one at a time and not in matching sets. Shoot and cane shafting, with its natural taper allows the arrow to shoot well from varying weight bows.

[JackCrafty]

Killir, just do a quick read on how Ishi made his arrows and how he hunted with them.  He would often call in his prey with certain sounds, for example.  There are very effective ways of hunting that we are clueless about these days...

[BowEd]

Cool shafts Pat.Alls it takes is one good arrow and placement to fill yer belly.....ha ha.I'm not into making sets normally either of a dozen or so.End up with a a lot of cardboard carpet tubes keeping them all seperated.Still got about 7 of your sourwood shafts here from Tennessee classic a few years ago.Just like the dogwood here really.

[BowEd]

You know I don't think the properties of wood has changed much from now to back then so I bet indian arrow shafts were of substantial weight back then too.500 to 700 grains for sure.

[willie]

No matter how painful it might be to accept the idea of random arrow weights, that's the way it was.

Jackcrafty- In your inspection of early arrows, have you seen any indications of tuning or modifications that may have been employed by the NA archers, if weight (and possibly
spine?) variations were the norm?



To myself, it seems reasonable to assume that weights varied more than current practice. Tuukkas quote of Mason does not make clear just how Mason was using the word "agree', but as an archer, I would like to think that those NA shooters did appreciate arrows that shot to a consistent point of aim. I have often wondered if the NA archer may have used  adjustments to his shooting technique to affect point of aim in order  to make up for arrow differences. Of course, any discussion of drawing practices or aiming methods could be highly speculative, but any Ideas as well as  reported observations might be of interest.

[tipi stuff]

Keep in mind too, the subject line says "Plains" arrows. They were snap shooting, or instinctive shooting a shorter bow and shorter arrows. They were not drawing a 30 inch arrow to an anchor point, and holding it for a shot. The whole style of shooting was different.  CC

[JackCrafty]

Willie, I haven't seen any indications of tuning after the completion of arrows.  Like Tipi said, these are Plains arrows we are talking about.  Many had carved lighting grooves, for example.  Scraping to reduce spine would tend to eliminate these grooves (and might show signs of re-grooving).  I have some first hand experience with southern Plains arrows and many were of the composite type (with foreshafts).  Tuning may have been done by changing out foreshafts but I have not seen any proof that this was a deliberate tuning strategy. And since it doesn't make sense to scrape cane shafts (which are almost 100 percent foreshafted) I think any tuning would be done early when selecting the material, during straightening, and/or at a time before signs of tuning would be eliminated.

[riverrat]

 its not that i dont accept that notion that arrows were of differing weights, lengths, ect. i do. im sure they got real close. much closer than most of us do today. not only that but the hunted in groups. most of us go out with 1 or 2 friends sometimes. i know most times i go all by myself.some folks are happy to hit a paper plate, once in awhile, at 20 yards. im more of a beefsteak tomato person with a worm hole in it at that range with 5 out of 6 arrows. Tony

[mullet]

I'm kinda thinking it might take a real good tuned arrow for shooting at 10 yds or less instead of a so, so one. A long distance shot has time to straighten up from the paradox of shooting off the hand and handle a lot better then shooting off horse back real close. After all, you want penetration on a buffalo and not have the arrow going in sideways.

[killir duck]

Jackcrafty you make a lot of sense, I have only got to handle couple of these arrows, the rest of my information has been from sources such as books, internet, museums etc. Thanks everyone for their input.

So here's another question, how were the lightning grooves made? I've tried a piece of antler with a hole in it and a sharpened nail inserted so just the tip of the nail is sticking out inside the hole, I've also tried various utility knives, scrapers, flint and obsidian flakes, all have more less worked with varying degrees of success.
The bowyers bible says that if the grooves are made while the shaft is still green they will keep the shaft straighter while drying,  I have not tested this but plan to in the next couple days. Thanks, have a good one, Duck

[Ed Brooks]

Jackcrafty you make a lot of sense, I have only got to handle couple of these arrows, the rest of my information has been from sources such as books, internet, museums etc. Thanks everyone for their input.

So here's another question, how were the lightning grooves made? I've tried a piece of antler with a hole in it and a sharpened nail inserted so just the tip of the nail is sticking out inside the hole, I've also tried various utility knives, scrapers, flint and obsidian flakes, all have more less worked with varying degrees of success.
The bowyers bible says that if the grooves are made while the shaft is still green they will keep the shaft straighter while drying,  I have not tested this but plan to in the next couple days. Thanks, have a good one, Duck

Killir, I don't know for sure but have cut some shafts in the spring summer when the sap was running. I cut length wise on the outer bark to peel it off. it left a faint mark on the under wood, as it dried it split in the faint mark, kind of a controlled crack. This could be done straight or in more shaped like lightning. just an idea hitting on the superstitions of the natives. Ed

[tipi stuff]

I'll post a few photos of old grooving tools. This one is mine, patterned after an old one. The holes are for sizing shafts and the hook shaped cut out is for grooving.  Curtis

[tipi stuff]

Well, I thought I had more photos of these things. I'll have to look around some more. This one is Kiowa, made from the end of a knife blade. CC

[Pat B]

Here is my grooving tool. It works well although I don't use it much. It is similar to the one you made Duck...