Author Topic: Bow billet glue  (Read 4895 times)

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Offline RyanR

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Bow billet glue
« on: November 26, 2015, 08:28:37 pm »
Is there a good glue for splicing billets that I can get at a lumber yard like Home Depot or Lowes?

Offline BowEd

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 08:45:16 pm »
A 24 hour setting 2 part epoxy like smooth on from 3 rivers archery.
BowEd
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Ed

Offline LittleBen

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 09:27:42 pm »
Buy smooth on. There is nothing better available. Anything fromHD or Lowes will be garbage in comparison. That's one recommendation and two slices of opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

Offline paulsemp

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2015, 10:01:30 pm »
Ive used 2 ton slow set for billets and many other things with no failures once i started mix the whole thing no matter how little i need. The mix ratio is very important imo and as cheap as it is $3 bucks is nothing to glue up billets.

Offline LittleBen

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 09:55:16 am »
Without beating it to death ... Smooth on is around $35 per 2pints. That's a lot of glue. When you work out the cost to glue a splice it's negligible.

So if 2-ton is the same price as smooth on per bow why bother? Because smooth on is for laminating bows and it is ideal for literally any and every gluing job on or even near your bows! Wanna glue a backing on? Smooth on. Wanna glue a handle on? Smooth on. Wanna glue up a Yumi replica? Smooth on. Tip overlays? Smooth on .... Ok maybe superglue, but you could use smooth on.

It will cure in 1-2days at room temp BTW. Heat cure not necessary.

Lastly, 2-ton in the little syringe for $3 is actually 3x the price of smooth on. 2-ton is over $3 per ounce in the syrige thingy,  if you buy the big tubes it's about $1.50/oz, and smooth on is about $1.10/oz.

Ok I'll be quiet now.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 09:58:23 am by LittleBen »

Offline paulsemp

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 11:03:40 am »
By no means was I trying to promote 2 ton epoxy as a superior glue to some of the others. I do not glue many things up and really don't want $40 in glue sitting around my house for 2-3 years so for me to run to the hardware store  just enough to glue up some billets is OK and it works just fine if you use it properly

Offline RyanR

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2015, 05:02:42 pm »
Thanks for the ideas. Like Paul, I just work staves but, I had one set of billets I wanted to glue up with minimal cost. I have used smooth on with good result but, I wanted something today for cheap. I got the Gorilla Glue version of two ton. I will see how it works out. If it doesn't hold up it will go in the fire and I will grab a stave and start over.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2015, 12:27:50 am »
I don't think your thinking of things in the long term but that's ok.I've seen overlays pop off off bows put on with two ton epoxy.Handles after 5 years just break for no reason with the stuff.The stuff yellows over time too.Your money and your time.In the end preparing your surface before glue up is very important.No oil or contaminents.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2015, 07:18:13 am »
I used TB2 once, it worked. But was a pain because it's so runny. I've used Uni-bond on every joint since.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline PatM

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2015, 08:38:21 am »
It's always worth checking any boatbuilding or specialty wood shops that may be close to you if you want access to good epoxy.  System Three and West both make outstanding Epoxy.

Offline Drewster

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2015, 08:49:21 am »
Per PatM's comment, I've used West System G-Flex for every splice I've ever done and it is excellent glue.  It has some gap filling qualities too if your splice is a bit less than perfect.  BUT, you probably won't find it at your local lumber yard or Lowes.
Drew - Boone, NC

Offline vinemaplebows

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2015, 02:34:00 pm »
Ive used 2 ton slow set for billets and many other things with no failures once i started mix the whole thing no matter how little i need. The mix ratio is very important imo and as cheap as it is $3 bucks is nothing to glue up billets.

I use the Devcon 2-ton ...slow set, never had a problem.....and I have used it a lot.
Debating is an intellectual exchange of differing views...with no winners.

Offline PlanB

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2015, 04:16:48 pm »
I wonder about handle pop offs being blamed always on one glue type or another. It seems like there are all kinds of different woods with very different expansion properties glued together in handles with different thicknesses, grain and ring orientations, surface preps (as mentioned already), degrees of oiliness, and different species gluing characteristics.

I was once a boatbuilder with a smaall boatshop, and have spread well over 100 gallons of epoxy in my time. The Gougeon Brothers (W.E.S.T. System inventors) always warned about gluing hardwoods with a thicknesss of over 3/4" because the forces of expansion were so great with variations in humidity. They tested woods and found that usually it was the wood itself that separated in failures, in a very thin layer just adjacent to the glue line -- even though the glue had been thought  to have failed.

And also, if I remember correctly, that roughening the gluing surfaces did not improve joint strength. I could be wrong in all this, but I do wonder whether too much is made of particular glues. I think most any glue specified for wood probably is stronger than the wood itself, if properly applied to a suitable wood type. But glues are often asked to do more than they can do to hold the wood itself together with humidity cycles and shooting shocks, at the thickness people use.

Gougeon used to recommend breaking up thicknesses to help spread the swelling strains, and maybe a handle riser would better be made up of 2 layers of 3/8" instead of on single 3/4" piece, as an example. Also mechanical pinning is far more effective at reducing shear in something like a handle than relying on a glue line alone. In boatbuilding pinning a joint of any thickness is common, mainly to avoid splitting, but glue separation is a form of splitting, too, when you think about it. Just a couple cents worth here.
I love it when a plan B comes together....

Offline bubby

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2015, 06:25:03 pm »
Handles pop off because of design or just from too much bend at the fades, very seldom is it other than operator error
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline PatM

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Re: Bow billet glue
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2015, 06:47:20 pm »
No question that woods have different rates of expansion according to species and grain orientation but a bow is essentially an indoor sheltered piece of equipment.
 A boat is more like outdoor furniture exposed to the worst of the elements.