Author Topic: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation  (Read 2377 times)

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Offline Sidmand

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Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« on: September 05, 2015, 11:01:14 am »
I have a piece of Ipe that I wanted to try something with.  I want to attempt a cable backed Ipe selfbow.  The board/stick is 60.5" long, 1.5" wide and 3/8 inch thick.  I was thinking of a bend in the handle design, keeping that bow full width around 12 inches (6 inches either side of center) and then tapering down to 1/4 inch tips pyramid style.  I have some polyester artificial sinew that I am going to cable the back with.   I have only ever backed Ipe, I know its ridiculously strong in compression.  I was wanting to try the cable and maybe raise it slightly off the back with some bridges to move the plane? (is that the right term?) up some.  I'm shooting for somewhere around 45# at 27", as long as it winds up over 40# I'd be OK with hunting with it (state regulations) but I'd like it closer to 50# really, cause that's what I'm comfortable with.

My questions:
  • anyone dome something lie this with Ipe?
  • Design sound feasible?
  • I can't really see the grain in this Ipe, it's super dark.  What I can see seems nice and strait, but Ipe seems to have interlocking and reversing grain.  I have a couple more pieces that are a little thicker but not quite as wide, should I use a different piece?

I'd love to hear some more thoughts as well.
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline tattoo dave

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2015, 11:16:31 am »
Well, I made one cable backed bow, and it failed. And I've only worked with ipe once. So I can't help you too much. However, 1/4" tips seems really thin. If you leave the thickness 3/8" the whole bow, and a pyramid taper on the width, you'll probably end up with it bending too much in the handle right off the bat. Maybe the cable can help with that though. I guess I would use a piece a little thicker, so you can get some thickness taper to it. But again, I've never made a successful cable backed bow.

Also, artificial sinew will stretch a fair amount, so plan on that. Please post some pics of the progress. I'm sure everybody would love to see it in the works. Good luck.

I'm hope somebody will have some more help for you.

Tattoo Dave
Rockford, MI

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2015, 07:50:12 pm »
thanks Dave!  I found another piece of Ipe that is the same width but just over 1/2" thick.  It's got a pin knot in one end though.  Maybe I will try that one out.
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2015, 09:03:03 pm »
Went with the thicker piece.  Also think I'm going to use some B50 to cable it.
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline paulsemp

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 09:24:25 pm »
Finally a good use for b50 >:D

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 10:40:50 am »
hah, yeah.  I have a bunch of off/weird colors to choose from, I'm thinking purple will clash with the Ipe quite nicely  :o
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline tattoo dave

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 02:18:52 pm »
B50 will stretch some too. And since you have so much weird colors, maybe you should send it all my way to get rid of it >:D :D looking forward to seeing this bow.

Tattoo Dave
Rockford, MI

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 03:56:05 pm »
Pm me your address, I will send you some.
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline Springbuck

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 03:18:53 pm »
So, every fable backed bow I made needed all kinds of adjustment on the tiller, messing around with the struts and bridges.  The best thing for this is to cut some bamboo garden stakes into small tubes of different diameters and move them around under the cable.  Getting the cable strength and the belly balanced also takes some doing.

The plan is solid.  Just cut the bow out, be prepared to tiller from the sides if needed, and play around with struts of different height until the tiller starts to look good.

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 04:27:35 pm »
hey Springbuck - thanks for the info!  Just to clarify in my mind, do you mean use the bamboo as the struts, and lay them under the cable perpendicular to the limbs?  For some reason my brain immediately jumped to "run the cable through the bamboo like a straw", but then that sounded totally wrong. 

Also, I was thinking about 14 strands of B50, and maybe sort of padding the ends like a bowstring so that the string doesn't split the nock.  I saw a bow that simson did (beautiful ERC cable backed bow to) that we had to reinforce the tips with horn cause the cable split the nock.  Maybe with Ipe it won't be an issue, I know it's harder than superman's kneecap.  But, anyway, 14 strands enough, or more or less?
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle

Offline Springbuck

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 05:13:31 pm »
Yeah, exactly! Perpendicular to the limb crosswise.  You can rubber band them in place temporarily if they stick out on the sides, or run string through the center and around to tie them in place.

Remember, the cable will stretch at first, so make your cable so it "braces" the bow, oh, say 2" in the wrong direction.  Then force the tips down to stretch it.  Even better, tie the string on with less brace height, then start binding it down against the limbs incrementally. Like tie it down over a 1/2" dia strut at the handle, then tie it down midway out each limb. The reflex will increase.  Then stretch it.  You can keep doing this, and twisting like a bowstring, until you find the correct length.  Then you play with the struts. Put a couple here, and there, and bend it on the tillering tree a few inches with a longstring, just like you would any bow.   You can brace it at like, 2", and move the struts around, add and take em away, and mess with their diameter until you get what you want for tiller.

Then, if you wanna be fancy, rebuild the whole thing with pretty wood struts the right size.  Or trim your bamboo to save the weight, a tie the struts in place to the bow permanent tly, and again on the front if you want to tie the cable down (I always have, just because t's that way on the Inuit bows I looked at).

As far as the cable thickness, I can't tell you exactly.  The position/geometry of the cable and bow actually provide fairly short stretch, but you have a lot of leverage to do it.  The cables always ended up thicker than the bowstring, for sure.  And I always used nylon artificial sinew, so I don't know how Dacron will act.  I'd start thicker than you think you need, and cut a strand or two out if you need to.  Also, thicker cable can be closer to the back of the bow, or thinner one, lifted higher on struts and still equal the same draw weight.

Offline Sidmand

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Re: Ipe cable-backed selfbow design recommedation
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 06:12:13 pm »
Awesome, thank you so much!
"Criticism is something we can avoid easily by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing." --> Aristotle