Author Topic: new black powder project  (Read 14900 times)

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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2015, 10:08:41 am »
Instead of being on the bottom of the forestock the rear entry pipe should be inletted below the barrel.



If your stock was originally a half stock you wouldn't have a rear ramrod pipe. The nose cap would have the hole for the ramrod cast into it. If your stock was originally a full stock that was cut down there will no evidence of a nose cap or rear rear ramrod entry pipe.

For an original half stock you would have a nose cap like this.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/799/1/FC-PA-14-B

If your gun was originally a halfstock and had the original barrel there would be an under rib screwed to the bottom of the barrel to hold the first two ramrod pipes.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 02:10:02 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2015, 10:15:56 am »
As for the rifling; you have a modern made barrel, it is unlikely it has straight rifling unless someone rifled it themselves without the proper rifling bench. There are some straight rifled barrels out there, none of modern manufacture that I have heard of. If you have a round ball barrel the twist would be 1 turn in 66 inches and would appear to be almost straight.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 03:57:33 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2015, 04:37:05 pm »
I posted your pictures over at the American Longrifle site to see if the stock is original.

The guys won't be kind about what someone did to what was once a fine original gun.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=36851.msg353614#msg353614
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 04:48:52 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline sleek

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2015, 05:27:57 pm »
The fact that is doesn't have a ramrod hole makes it a amateurish home built gun and not an original.

I thought I could see a ramrod hole under the barrel in the lock mortise. The gun has been made from miss matched parts by someone who didn't know what they were doing and is not the original build. I still lean toward the stock being at one time from an original 19th century gun gun.

Welding on a barrel is bad news, it creates all kinds of stress related weaknesses according to the experts at on the long rifle site. A properly mounted barrel will have dovetailed underlugs for pins or keys to hold the stock to it. I miss drilled this one  and had to solder on an extension to beef it up a bit.



http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php

If you can stand honesty from a guy who has done only a couple of scratch flintlock builds, I would make a wall hanger out of the gun and not waste time trying to make a functional gun out of what you have to work with.

For a certainty I can appreciate blunt honesty. But, having nothing to loose but time and knowledge to gain, im gonna play with this thing anyway. 

The plan....

Grind off that nut.
Multiple heat treats to normalize barrel stresses around the welded nut.
Machine a soft steel rod to fit bore diameter and run it down the barrel.
Heat the barrel to bend the kink out so the rod slides down.
Use ball guages to determine bore diameter in damaged area. Machine the barrel to the smallest diameter that fixes the problem.
Send barrel off for hardening and tempering.

The wood stock is next. I can save it but its gonna take much work.
After redoing the wood stock, I will put it all back together and hunt with it next year.
If this doesnt work, hang it on the wall. It only cost me $10.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Stoker

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2015, 06:18:22 pm »
You got a long road ahead of you.. Gary at my bp club says ''It's not hard work just alot of it''  Good luck post pics of your progress.. It will be interesting
Thanks Leroy
Bacon is food DUCT tape - Cipriano

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2015, 06:21:59 pm »
Nothing like a project to learn on.

Another thing; the hooked breech plug doesn't look like it was made for this barrel because the top flat on the barrel doesn't match up with plug. Someone without gun building knowledge probably just screwed in a breech plug until it was tight. A proper fit would have the face of the breech plug be a press fit of the breech face inside the barrel for a tight gas seal. I have done a couple of these and it was a two day pain of filing a little, checking the fit with dye check and repeat until you get a good seal. 

You could cut all that filler out of your barrel channel and redo the job with Accuglass bedding compound and have a pretty good fit.

Offline sleek

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2015, 06:25:01 pm »
All good notes to take note of. Thanks. I will do this.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2015, 08:10:07 pm »
I took another look and noticed that is not a hooked breech or at least it doesn't look like one. Looks like a CVA type percussion breech plug screwed into the barrel.

Offline wildman

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2015, 11:50:10 pm »
For the sake of safety I beg you not to try to use that barrel , I am on my knees begging DO NOT try to reuse that barrel !!!!!!!! I have no where near the muzzle loader knowledge Eric does , but I have put a few together. I buy some cheaper guns when I can mostly for the sights and hardware. I will now send you a lock and barrel if you want . The barrel is not much , and I have robbed the rear sights, but it is safe to fire !!!!!
" Society your crazy greed , hope your not lonely without me"

-Eddie Vedder-

Offline wildman

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2015, 11:51:30 pm »
Keep in mind you are holding a pipe bomb to your face.
" Society your crazy greed , hope your not lonely without me"

-Eddie Vedder-

Offline sleek

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2015, 11:54:16 pm »
Well, I dont know what to say. I had planned on light loads and pulling a long string to fire it.... many times.

But if you feel that strongly about it, id sure like to trade you something for your amazing generosity. 
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline wildman

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2015, 12:14:19 am »
Not looking for anything , Sleek.  Most guys I am close with in person on here know I love flintlocks , and also know I was involved in a very bad caplock accident. I just hate to see something happen when I have parts I will never use. I don't build any caplock stuff and have that one lock that functions fine . The barrel is sound , it just has a bad bore. As I said it is yours send me your info , if you feel the need to send something that's cool ,if not that's cool too. Stay safe.
" Society your crazy greed , hope your not lonely without me"

-Eddie Vedder-

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2015, 09:23:35 am »
I am a little touchy on the barrel topic myself. When I was 13 my best friend and I built a muzzle loader pistol with a copper pipe barrel. We always strapped it to a tree, lit the fuse and ran behind another tree before it went off.

One day when I wasn't around, he loaded it, held it in his hand and put a match to the touch hole. The gun blew up and killed him.

I am 67 years old and still think abut this incident almost daily.

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2015, 12:58:37 pm »
I have been shooting BP for 38 years. Mostly flinters. I would not use that barrel either.
Like the others have said: breech plug is not right. You never know if or when it could blow.
I've welded for 40+ years and by the looks of that so called weld you more than likely have
a very weak spot there. Grinding it off and heating to bend it will only make it that much WEAKER.
Do not trust it at all.


Dog
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

Offline sleek

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Re: new black powder project
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2015, 01:02:48 pm »
I decided im going to make a table top lamp out of the barrel with some decorative wood and antler.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others