Author Topic: 30 Year old sage stave help. (Read 2650 times)

DV IN MN · « **on:** August 13, 2015, 10:23:45 am »

I have had this piece of wood since 87, resurrected from a pile of would be fence post. Length is 64". Plan is a flat bow at 64 + or-, Non Bendy handle. Looking to sinew back and cover with diamond back. Here are issues/questions I have before I proceed: The stave on one end has a natural re-curved end. A fairly significant dish from a knot on the opposite side on the belly, approx 5" inches from top of the handle area.
The bow/stave has no linear cracks its entire length. To match the natural re-curve do I use dry heat or steam? This is one process I will be new to. I have steamed and used dry heat to take out propeller twist. Heating the belly with dry heat I did get some linear cracks before? On the natural re-curve it does have some propeller that will need to be removed. I am thinking I will want to sinew back after heating and bending the bow. ON the dish, it is approx 1/2 in deep, which will leave maybe a 1/2 left in that area. Concern is with the weight I am trying to achieve will I develop a hinge here and should I just sand the dish area smooth first and leave the area wider and thicker and proceed as normal tiller?
Thanks

PEARL DRUMS · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2015, 12:12:21 pm »

Id use dry heat to match the ends up and continue on normally. If thee back dips down as your pics show, your belly needs to follow a parallel line to the back. A hinge cant just happen, they are made by us. So, if that area looks weak, don't touch it and a hinge cant happen. Catch the rest of the limb up to the weak spot, that's a constant in tillering.

bradsmith2010 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2015, 01:57:04 pm »

64 inches is a little long for sinew back,,, unless you are just putting one thin layer to protect the back
as suggested some dry heat to even the limbs a bit, but no need to get carried away,,
if is was my bow I would probably make a bendy handle straight style bow,, but either will work,, nice wood congrats

bowandarrow473 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2015, 04:14:41 pm »

As Bradsmith said 64 inches is too long for sinew backing if you have a good, un-violated growthring on the back of the bow. at that length I would think that sinew backing would just increase the bows suceptibillity to moisture unneccessarily, and it would add useless mass to the bow, decreasing performance.

Pappy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2015, 04:48:35 pm »

I would use dry heat to even things up and carry on like any other bow. Can't tell much about the knot from the pictures ( to small for these old eyes) but like any bow try and follow ring over it and leave a little extra wood on the sides. I love old Osage, it makes great bows. Pappy

crooketarrow · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:51:42 pm »

If you do use dry heat. I've built few bows from older staves. 5 From a 100 year old osage corner post as well as others. I feel closer and feel I put more of myself into OLDDDDD STAVES.

Personally a stave at old and nice. If you don't have any exsperance with heating. Set it back in the corner untill you do. If you have to, Go slow use low heat and theres no hurry.

It looks like you can strighten that tip through tillering. Some one said 64 inch bow is to long to sinew. If thats true I've made a whole lot of bows wrong.

It's not the lenth it's the property's of the stave (bow) or what you want. Lenth of the bow dos'nt matter.

You have a special peice of wood. Go slowwwwwwwww remember you can't put the wood back on and once you over heat and get cracks from beening,beening and just a little more.

Change the wood cells by heat your stave (bow) might look better but it will not be as well built and last as it could be.

GOOD LUCK

jeffp51 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2015, 09:28:07 pm »

It's a lost cause. Send it to me and I will dispose of it safely for you.

DV IN MN · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:31:13 pm »

My decision for the sinew is due to putting the stress on the wood when I match the curve on the one end. do not plan on making working re-curves. this will be my first attempt at bending wood.
My concern with the knot is that it is on the belly side and has a pretty deep dish where that knot was on the opposite side and popped out during splitting. It was so long ago can't remember. I do know I have had this piece inside all along never sealed it except the ends and it has not a crack. Some knots and dips on the back but a pretty nice piece. the dot on the 3 picture is the ring I will chase to little over 1/8 thick. Original plan was in 96 wanted to make it into a bow for bear hunting in WI but end up moving to MN. I have 3 or 4 other pieces from this batch. Couple of billets and 1 or two staves also. Might get to them also but will probably work some of the 5 yr old stuff I have first.
Want to make the perfect bow out of this piece so I took all my lack of patience out on another piece the past month pretty much a piece of fire wood now. will maybe make a d bow but more likely a kids bow.

mikekeswick · « **Reply #8 on:** August 14, 2015, 03:17:39 am »

Bending in a recurve does not require the wood to be sinew backed afterwards.
I once made a 64 inch ntn recurve, osage, sinew backed and although it had a tiny bit of handshock (due to too wide limbs) it is a real rocket launcher 185 fps......forget all this about 64 is too long....I really don't agree

It's more about executing your tiller/design combo correctly.
I'd use steam on that recurve everyday - it's going to be much,much safer than using a heat gun.

PEARL DRUMS · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2015, 07:02:17 am »

Who am I to say its too long? The dude could be pulling 30" for all I know, hope he is for power strokes sake. What about fade length? The difference between 3" fades and 1 1/2" fades is huge when it comes to working length. Maybe he has big hands and uses 5" handle? That east up another inch. Is it too long for sinew? Got me.

Pappy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2015, 07:15:12 am »

FYI , I have had lots of trouble with checking steaming old wood, especially if doing the whole bow, so just be aware.

Never had many problems with dry heat on old dry wood just green/wet/unseasoned wood.

Highest rate of performance is usually not my thing with building bows so I never really thought about to long for sinew, if I want to sinew I do, if not I don't to each there own.

Pappy

bradsmith2010 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2015, 02:04:38 pm »

you can put sinew on any length bow,,, if the bow is long for the draw length it will shoot good,, you just wont be getting much added performance from the sinew,, it might shoot just the same as a self bow,, or slower from the added weight of the sinew,,
most sinew bows that perform well are about double the draw length,, of course you could whip tiller and make the handle fades longer to help,, but in general putting sinew on a self bow length bow is not going to get the best results,,if you have been putting sinew on longer bows,, it is not wrong at all,, and can protect a back with issues,, it just wont shoot like a bow that is stressing the sinew a bit more,,

DV IN MN · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2015, 09:07:32 pm »

Thanks Pappy. I too have experienced some checking when taking out propellers on the ends using steam. Yes I have a long draw 31". I have backed only two bows one not so good. The other is a light bow for what I want, probably 52 ish (that's what it is on the bathroom scale with a tiller tree) but really shoots an arrow with emphasis. I have a lot of sinew, I am confident in my ability to tiller it right(as long as I am patient) but just haven't done the bending thing and not a lot of experience with backing. Only looking at 2 thin courses of sinew but then if I add snake skin now we could be talking about adding additional mass when it all adds up, that could bog down the performance.

bradsmith2010 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2015, 04:47:22 pm »

i think if you are going to draw 31 inches,, your bow length will work fine with the sinew

Primitive Archer