Origin of the Duci'ne

[AncientTech]

Native American people have a long memory of flintknapping traditions, the use of stone tools, etc.  In the plains, the practices continued into the early 1800's, but were remembered in the late 1800's, with a few trinket makers around to sell to collectors. 

In the west, to the west of the Rockies, the traditions continued into the early 20th century, in some places.  In remote parts of the arctic, lithic traditions also continued into the early 20th century.

In Chiapas, and Guatemalan highlands, such traditions have continued up until the present day. 

[Ed Brooks]

In Chiapas, and Guatemalan highlands, such traditions have continued up until the present day.
[/quote]

1: Is there anyone on here from Chiapas or the Guatemalan highlands, that can tell us anything about how they flint nap there?
2: Is finding someone from one of these areas that is into flint napping, the way we will find out the lost ways you hint at AncientTech? Ed

[caveman2533]

traditional like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqG4ki4C3C4

[JW_Halverson]

traditional like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqG4ki4C3C4

That's nuts. 

Likely 3/8th or maybe 1/2 inch nuts.

Maybe metric beings it is in Mexico.

[AncientTech]

In Chiapas, and Guatemalan highlands, such traditions have continued up until the present day.

1: Is there anyone on here from Chiapas or the Guatemalan highlands, that can tell us anything about how they flint nap there?
2: Is finding someone from one of these areas that is into flint napping, the way we will find out the lost ways you hint at AncientTech? Ed
[/quote]

Hello Ed,

Here are two images showing Lacandon knappers using blade core technology:





Here is some footage I believe shot around 1950.  The footage was taken after hiking, I believe, nine days into the interior of Chiapas, with burros. 

https://youtu.be/CfQUFERvPxI

Also, in the fall of 2010, I spoke with a Mexican gemologist, who witnessed the Lacandons carrying out a similar core/blade technology, as seen in the photos, and video.  But, he also saw another technology that was used only by the best flintknappers, to make "arrowheads".  He described it as an arrowhead dancing on the hand, with the knapper holding a flake between three fingers, and a punch between two fingers.  The knapper would flip the flake vertically, and horizontally, while banging the punch over and over again.  Apparently, the process reaches fairly high speeds, so that it looks as though the flake is "dancing on the hand'.  My gemologist friend, Dante, said that this is probably the most amazing thing he has ever encountered in his life.

It appears that one of the other posters may be attempting to suggest that that steel bolt technique is somehow an authentic technique.  The steel bolt technique is a form of direct percussion.  The threads of the steel bolt are used to rasp the edge of the stone, which is frequently obsidian.  When a platform is formed, the knapper jabs the platform with the head of the steel bolt.  If you go to Mexico, and you see obsidian heads lining shops, the heads are probably made in Teotihuacan, with the steel bolt technique.  Apparently, the knappers like the way that the threads are so useful in rasping away at the edge, to create a platform.  From a practical perspective, it is a "two-in-one" method - percussion/edge rasper.

There was a very early Folsom replicator/forger named Marvin McCormick.  He seems to have learned his techniques from his uncle, or great uncle, while a young boy.  Apparently, his uncle was a team-driver on the Old Santa Fe trail.  And, he had a chance to see Indians making arrowheads, firsthand.  Some of McCormick's methodology reflects that. What is odd is that he used a similar technique as seen with the Mexican knappers.  He used a rod to jab at the edges of his heat treated bifaces.  Also, I believe that a similar technique was seen in Guatemala, though the knappers rested the glass cutting tools on a pad of soft bark. 

My view is that this jabbing technique, with steel bolt heads and such, probably works well on brittle materials, such as obsidian.  But, it might not work so well on the harder cherts.  So, I am not sure whether this is a morphed version of a prehistoric technology, or whether some other technology preceded it.       

Anyway, here is McCormick's preform technology, and fluting technology, used in the early 1900's.  (Photo credit:  Tony Baker's website/photo showing anvil was aligned to show the anvil on his lap, with the leg positioned horizontally)

   

[caveman2533]

When referencing the bolt knapping video, i believe the other poster was merely attempting to refute your argument that traditions are carried out for generations and if it was seen by early explorers then it must have been a millennia old tradition and could be extrapolated to extend as far back as even Clovis.

[AncientTech]

Ed,

The person who referenced the bolt knapping video is presenting a strawman argument.

For the record, I do not believe that simply because an explorer saw a technique, that proves that the Clovis knappers used the same technique.

At the same time, I do not believe that at the end of the Ice Age, a group of "anti-overshot police" rose up among the paleoindians, and patrolled two continents, while forcing everyone to "stop the practice", or "stop the practicing of overshot technology".

I do not believe that it can be proven that late stage overshot technology "disappeared".  Nor do I believe that it can be proven that late stage Clovis overshot is necessarily the signature of a distinctive technology. 

In other words, if late stage controlled overshot is not actually the signature of a distinctive technology - or a "standalone technology" - then how could one know whether the practiced disappeared, if only the creation of overshot disappears from the record?

The idea might make a good movie, though,"Red Warriors Stop Overshot Makers On Two Continents, Before Ice Thaws".