Hickory Tillering Advice?

[Willibow]

Thanks, I'll get her braced at 4 or 5" tonight and do some more work.  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't pushing forward with any serious flaws or hinges in the making my untrained eyes might have missed.

[lebhuntfish]

It doesn't look too bad, maybe a little stiff on the outer third of the left limb. But get it braced a little bit more. Then post more pics and we will take a look! Patrick

[mikekeswick]

The right limb is stiff out of the fades then bends a shade too much mid limb with the outer/tip being stiff again. Left limb is good. BEFORE bracing it higher sort out this problem! These are the sort of things you need to not miss 
Never increase brace height until it looks perfect otherwise you will just overstrain the weak spots.
Also I would find somewhere where you can trace the (side)profile of the stave with a pen. This is so you can hold the bow up to the 'original' profile to see exactly where it is taking set. If one area on a limb takes set then you know 100% that spot is weak and the rest of the limb needs weakening. You should be aiming for no set inner limbs, a little midlimb and the rest out to the tips.
Also once you get to 20 inches of draw then you should be drawing the bow by hand and taking photos of it in hand as the forces will be different to your tillering tree.
Good luck and keep osting pictures

[lebhuntfish]

The right limb is stiff out of the fades then bends a shade too much mid limb with the outer/tip being stiff again. Left limb is good. BEFORE bracing it higher sort out this problem! These are the sort of things you need to not miss 
Never increase brace height until it looks perfect otherwise you will just overstrain the weak spots.
Also I would find somewhere where you can trace the (side)profile of the stave with a pen. This is so you can hold the bow up to the 'original' profile to see exactly where it is taking set. If one area on a limb takes set then you know 100% that spot is weak and the rest of the limb needs weakening. You should be aiming for no set inner limbs, a little midlimb and the rest out to the tips.
Also once you get to 20 inches of draw then you should be drawing the bow by hand and taking photos of it in hand as the forces will be different to your tillering tree.
Good luck and keep osting pictures

Very good information mikekeswick, I wish someone would have told me that when I started making bows! Patrick

[Willibow]

Okay, time for some more pictures as the bow build progresses.  Having a lot of fun and really taking my time using cabinet scrapers.

I've got the bow braced at about 5.5" above the belly at this point, puling 52 lbs at 20"

See images below of braced and drawn profiles:







And drawn:





Tiller is looking a lot better to my eye, though I'm not really sure how long to make the stiff tips.  I feel like they are too long at the moment and the bow ought to be bending more closer towards the tips.  Is there a good rule of thumb for this to ensure you don't make a whip-ended bow while still allowing work to be done as far out as possible on the limb?  Something simple like leaving 6" or 12" unbending would be great for newer bowyers like me.

Set is at about an inch on each limb immediately after unstringing, measured from a flat table up with the back down on the table.  Most of the set seems to have occurred about mid-to 2/3 down each limb, where I found some hinges using my tillering gizmo earlier on.  I am not sure how much the limbs will relax, but will check again tomorrow after work.

I'm getting excited as I get closer to the end, so it's a good thing the work week is starting up again to keep me from getting back to it too fast!
Thanks again.

[Del the cat]

Looking good
Right limb looks a tad stiffer than the left?
It's almost impossible to get the very tips bending as there is virtually no leverage, but the outer 1/3 can certainly bend.
Sometimes looking along the limb as you are flexing it or when it's drawn helps you see the bend.
The difference between arc of a circle and elliptical is pretty small especially when as you can't bend the very last few inches.
I know what you mean about ending up whip tillered. I ended up with chrysals near the tips on one bow 'cos I tried too hard for that elliptical tiller... that's one reason why I tend to go for arc of a circle... it's more clearly defined.
Sorry I'm rambling now
Del
BTW. My personal view is that it's better to allow the bow to rock on the tiller on a curved support rather than a square support. Try to mimic how it behaves in the hand. So pull it from the nocking point not the centre of the string.

[Willibow]

Thanks Del, I appreciate the input.

So you build up a half-circle and balance the bow on that while pulling on the tillering tree?  It was suggested that I pull it by hand from here on out, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that yet. I'm not familiar enough to know what about 20 inches of draw at about 50 pounds would feel like, nor am I set up to take pictures while doing that yet. 

[Del the cat]

Thanks Del, I appreciate the input.

So you build up a half-circle and balance the bow on that while pulling on the tillering tree?

Yup, that's it...
It's a bit of an eye opener, because it will be severely tilted when you first start to pull it, but will even up as you draw.
If you actually look at a bow as you put an arrow on the string and start to draw you will see it tilts.
Del

[PEARL DRUMS]

You have a heck of a bow going. I like it.

[Willibow]

Got a couple more inches towards full draw tonight.  Currently drawing 54 lbs at 22".  I decided to shift up a bit and shoot for 55 lbs at 28" when she's all said and done.  A great pile of scraper shavings is building up around my feet and the aroma of hickory fills the garage.  Good times any time I'm making shavings 

I put an effort in this night to get the outer third of each limg bending more without letting the last 6" or so of the limbs bend.  To my eye, the right limb still needs more bend in the outer third, please comment on this.  I also narrowed the tips a bit from a hair under 1/2" to about 3/8" wide.

Pictures follow:

Braced:


And with grid:



21.75" or so draw:


Drawn with grid:


Now, I've noticed the set has increased a bit.  I would really like to see 1.5" max on each limb, but I think that's slipping away from me as I progress.  I'll refer to the limbs in the following pictures as they are typically seen when the bow is on the tillering tree in the past pictures.  Any advice on how to proceed with attention paid to minimizing set would be appreciated.  I've read badgers notes on zero-set tillering, but he says in his post to be familiar with side tillering as a prerequesite.  Unfortunately, side tillering is something I'm completely unfamiliar with and hadn't heard of until that post.

First, overall unstrung profile.  Right limb here is the same right limb as is normally shown, despite the fact that it is upside down.  I placed the bow upside down because I had the sneaking suspicion that the flat base of the handle was not planed level.


Next, the left limb is at about 1.25" set immediately after unstringing.  This one has had more set throughout the build, and I feel like it may be from where the bow was bending a bit too much out of the fades in the beginning of the process.  I'd appreciate thoughts on where you all think the increased set is coming from on this limb.  Note: There is a small hump in the limb about 2/3 of the way down it's length that may be contributing.  This is a little easier to see in the above unstrung picture.


Right limb is at a little less than 3/4" set immediately after unstringing:


Next, side profile looking down the right limb with 3/4" set:


Left side profile, limb with 1.25" set:


Finally, the back profile of the bow for reference.  Dimensions are about 2" at the fades (I wanted to increase my chances of a working bow as much as possible as I intend to take this on a hunt in early August) and tapering to about 3/8" at the tips.  67" ntn.  I may try piking this bow to shorten it up a little.  If I do pike it, what would be a recommendation to start with?  68" tip to tip is the current dimension and I feel like I could probably get a little more manageable length out of it if I try.



Thanks so much again for any advice, random thoughts, ramblings, compliments, scoldings, or anything else that might help along the journey!

[Willibow]

Wow, that last post is a lot to digest.  I've got another question to add to that pile:

I'm considering adding an arrow-pass cutout.  Is that something I should have done earlier in the game?  If so, would I be okay narrowing the handle, and how narrow would be a good starting point to bring the bow closer to center-shot.  As it stands, the handle isn't much more narrow than the 2" fades.  If memory serves me, the handle is about 1.75" wide in the center of the bow and 1.5" at the most narrow points offset two inches from the center.  There doesn't appear to be any working or bending of the stave under the glued-on riser.  Riser is 1" thick.

I'd really like to either narrow the handle considerably or add an arrow pass to bring the arrows much closer to center.  Thoughts?

[Del the cat]

Grip and arrow pass IMO are finishing jobs... you do 'em last to make 'em fit the hand and the bow.
It's looking good, the bit of set seems spread pretty evenly along the limb which is good. If you can see an area that isn't taking set, then it can maybe work a tad harder, and any area that has set can be left alone.
My workshop could do with one of those magic grids 
Del

[Willibow]

I'm approaching the end of tillering for this bow and I would appreciate another close look from all of your keen eyes  .

Currently pulling 55 lb at 25".  Will be tillering out to 55 lb at 28", so I've got there inches of pull to make any necessary adjustments.

I really appreciate any further comments, ideas, criticisms, etc.

I'm currently planning on figuring the handle when I get to 26" and to finish tillering with the figured handle completed.  It will lower the bow down closer to the shelf of the tillering tree and I'm worried that if I figure the handle after tillering is complete, I'll effectively lose some good amount of poundage as the point of measurement for draw length will have moved forward a half inch to 3/4 of an inch or so, depending on how the handle comes out.  Plus, this will leave a little wiggle room for adjusting balance, etc.

Also, I'm currently thinking of making the left limb the bottom limb.  It is effectively about 1/4" shorter than the right limb since I put in a nock for a stringer closer to the outer edge of that limb.  I remember reading that the bottom limb should be shorter and a bit stiffer.  I would really like to hear some thoughts on how I should proceed with this.

Thanks in advance.  You guys have taught me a huge amount in a very short amount of time!

[Del the cat]

You're there :-
Just breaking wind carelessly in the vicinity of the bow will get you back those last 3" 
Ok a slight exaggeration .
I reckon on 26" being as near as dammit to 28" but rounding off edges, narrowing tips (as much as you dare) removing tool marks etc will get you there. There's only room for the slightest of tillering adjustments now... I'd shoot a few arrows through it at short draw and allow plenty of lookin' at it time and the odd bit of fiddling and fettling.
Drawing it in the hand and seeing how it looks is more important than what it's like on the tiller now.
If you want me to be picky, I'd say the outer 1/2 -1/3 of the right limb could bend a tad more? Dunno, could be an optical illusion caused by background noise and Wily Goat )... but just rounding the belly a tad would probably do that...
But you need to see it in the hand.
Also start tuning up the arrow pass and grip to suit the string line...
Del

[Pappy]

Good advice from Del, middle 1/3  of right limb maybe a touch, but looking really good. I would shoot it a bit and recheck. Nice job.
 
  Pappy