native american bow tiller

[willie]

I have been looking at the Steve Alley drawings and dimensions of native american bows and have been wondering why so many traditional bows were tillered the same way? (Bendy in the handle with stiffer limbs.)
Certainly the native americans were not concerned with the same things we are today, but what advantages did they realize with their designs?

[JonW]

I have no science just experience. I think the cross section of a lot of NA bows is indicative of a design that encompasses different wood species. The cross section and design will usually come out with a circular tiller. Just my attempt .

[PatM]

Were these bows documented in strung form or were speculative drawings made?

[adb]

I've seen plenty of authentic NA bows, but I've never seen one at full draw.

[JonW]

You mean that you can't judge tiller by profile and dimensions?

[adb]

Yes, sometimes.

[adb]

I can make a pretty good guess that a bow like this is going to bend too much in the handle.

[willie]

well, when the dimensions given are consistently showing bows with little taper in width or thickness, it is not hard to image what they would tiller out like. A little more than speculation, i think.

slack bunny commented (and I agree with most of his post in the other thread).......

it's foolish to assume that primitive peoples didn't put any thought into it. After all, they were just as intelligent and inquisitive as we are today, and most people are always looking for ways to improve their lot. But neither is it wise to attribute them supreme knowledge.

I guess my question is an inquiry of possible practical reasons, not necessarily looking for "supreme knowledge".

[bradsmith2010]

when I read about bows the Pope tested,, some seemed to be good quality and some not,, so would think there is a wide range in quality of bows still existing,, and may not be representative of the bows  that were used for the most part,, I am just guessing,, but the bows that exist today,, are a very small percentage of how many bows were in existence in the past,, the bend in the handle is a great design,, and will allow for a longer draw with a shorter stave,, makes since it was used alot,, as far as the tiller,,, if it shot well and did not break,, the way it looked was probably secondary,, I am sure there were virtuoso bow makers that could tiller any way they liked as well,,  if the unbraced profile is good,, you can assume the tiller was pretty good,,

[adb]

Agreed. Short bendy handled bows were likely the norm. How they were tillered is anyone's guess. As long as you could protect your family and feed them, it was a keeper. 

[bradsmith2010]

I am looking at Native American Bows,Arrows , and Quivers,,, from the drawings I see alot of well tillered bend handle bows,, if they were bending too much in the handle the unbraced bow would show set there,,
the drawings may not reflect the taper in the limb with enough detail to see,, yes I agree the bow pictured above might not be tillered that well,, but I am not assuming the Native bows Steve is depicting are like that one,, 

[adb]

I agree. The bow pictured above is not tillered well at all. It surprises me though, because it's made by someone who I think knows better. I'm not sure what he was thinking.

[willie]

Just to be clear, the opening post mentions a tiller that is bendy in the handle with stiffer limbs. I presume that is exactly what the bowyer intended with the design, as evidenced by the lack of set in the illustrations as bradsmith points out.

I does not surprise me that pope tested bows with a wide variety of performance. Pope might have presumed that the NA bowyers/archers were expecting the same performance as bows built to criteria that pope favored. It's not hard to imagine that any archer could appreciate a good shooter, but was pope commenting on cast only? I can also imagine that not all the bows that made it into the hands of the white man were the best examples of the NA bowyers, either.

adb- posting a photo of Rich's bow into this thread along with the comment that it bends too much, is over the top   

[adb]

An example fresh in everyone's mind.

[adb]

well, when the dimensions given are consistently showing bows with little taper in width or thickness, it is not hard to image what they would tiller out like. A little more than speculation, i think.

slack bunny commented (and I agree with most of his post in the other thread).......

it's foolish to assume that primitive peoples didn't put any thought into it. After all, they were just as intelligent and inquisitive as we are today, and most people are always looking for ways to improve their lot. But neither is it wise to attribute them supreme knowledge.

I guess my question is an inquiry of possible practical reasons, not necessarily looking for "supreme knowledge".

You brought a quote over from the 'other' thread. What's the difference.