ethics

[Sidewinder]

I don't disagree that we should not cut wood we don't think we will use, on the other hand, when you find wood that is worthy of being cut and....you can legally and ethically do so, you should harvest it.
 The only time I ever cut wood on property that I did not have permission was public property along the river in a somewhat rural part of the city, after I asked and they said no. If you understand southern kansas, they are cutting down acres of osage orange and turning it into more grazing areas. They are piling up acres and acres of osage orange and then just burning it. So when I ask the commision for permission to cut one tree along the river in the outskirts of the city and they said no because "if they granted it for one they had to do it for all",  I said oh well. Then after driving by that area for 5yrs I finally decided that I was gonna get my night vision goggles and my muffler silencer on my chainsaw and go clandestiine on em.  As it is we did it in broad daylight  and no one said anything. Every other time I've harvested wood its been with permission. They just kinda ticked me off with there buearocratic BS and I got kinda rebellious.
 I get people started in this thing a couple times a year. When you go through good staves to get people started you go through some good bow wood. You will always have an abundance of marginal stuff that comes with every harvest, but its the good stuff that goes first. I do not think, with all the waste and wanton destruction that goes one in this world, that having a few more staves than you think you will need is execessive.
 But then again I could be a bow wood aholic and in denial.       Danny

[jeffp51]

I sometimes wonder if bowyers in osage areas replant at all when they harvest?  I don't even know how abundant it is.  I hadn't heard of osage trees until last year, even though I lived near osage county in Missouri for a year.

[mikekeswick]

I always ask people on this site "do you have permission to cut the tree". To many on PA steal wood wherever they can find it. I always ask permission to cut and always get it.

Good job you don't live here then or else you'd never have any wood!

Have you cut this tree yet?
Forget the council, all that tree would ever be used for is firewood. I have quite a few tree surgeon friends who i've met over the years, less than a fraction of 1% of the wood cut in this country goes to a saw mill. Everything goes for firewood because it's brings the most money. Simple. Look at all those powerstations....they need around 1000 tonnes of wood a day each.....do the maths!

[Del the cat]

  It takes 5 minutes to find out who owns it...

I'd like to know how you find out who owns some random piece of land in the UK???
Even with a farm it's hard to find which of the surrounding farmers owns that particular plot.
Near me there is an old estate with various plots some of which are virtual gated communities interspersed with old cottages etc. Some Yew is part of the boundary, some is one plot some in another. Some is managed via a property management company... how on earth does one get to actually find who owns it and manage to talk to someone who even understands what you are after. The people living the properties don't own the land and would doubtless think you were trying to sell 'em something or rob 'em if you knocked on the door.
It's easy enough if it's on council land.
Del

[chamookman]

I'd put on some Green tights and a Green hat with a pheasant feather and take it. Wasn't there a famous Brit that did something similar years ago in Sherwood  ? Bob

[WillS]

  It takes 5 minutes to find out who owns it...

I'd like to know how you find out who owns some random piece of land in the UK???
Even with a farm it's hard to find which of the surrounding farmers owns that particular plot.
Near me there is an old estate with various plots some of which are virtual gated communities interspersed with old cottages etc. Some Yew is part of the boundary, some is one plot some in another. Some is managed via a property management company... how on earth does one get to actually find who owns it and manage to talk to someone who even understands what you are after. The people living the properties don't own the land and would doubtless think you were trying to sell 'em something or rob 'em if you knocked on the door.
It's easy enough if it's on council land.
Del

He said it was on the side of a B road.  I'd go to the local council, ask them, and they'd be able to tell him after a short check who actually deals with it.

I've had quite a lot of success knocking on doors when after yew.  I take a bow along if they want to see what I'm talking about, have business cards printed out and if you're open and friendly and don't skirt around the actual issue most people either say "what a cool idea, go for it" or "no, I quite like that tree being there, sorry!" and that's it.  Very simple, very ethical and if you chuck in twenty quid 99% of them are all for it. 

[Del the cat]

Did you say wear a short skirt?   
Del

[WillS]

I did, but that's not the point.  I think it was the lipstick that really swing it.  Looked great with the beard.

[dragonman]

what about asking permission from the tree its self? many natives actualy did this in recognition of the the spirit of the tree... how do you own a tree anyway,??   You tough guys may laugh at this , but a tree has a powerfull spirit, it isnt good to upset them... ...It is the same with owning land, does anyone really own land, or do they just think they do, because a peice of paper says so?  Because a so called land owner gives permission does that make it OK.? A tree is a living being, it cant talk, but it does have awareness....

I once cut a limb of yew from an ancient church yard.  on returning back down the path a passer by asked if I had asked permission to cut the tree, so I asked him, "who do you think owns the tree then.?  isnt this Gods house, ? so yes,  I asked permission from Him,  "  He never answered so I presumed He didnt mind..."....the guy looked annoyed with me, so I muttered nosey bastard to myself as I walked off....he didnt get my car number so what could he do...
It makes me laugh, people who think they own land and trees...Yes there are many of us in the  UK who descend from Robin Hood...

[E. Jensen]

Put me down for one more vote of contacting the council.  You never know till you ask, and it'll go alot smoother with permission.  If they said no, personally I'd not poach it, even if it did end up being chipped, because you really don't know if they will just chip it or if they truly wanted it to remain.

As far as cutting trees along rivers . . .  riparian areas are generally different and more fragile ecosystems than non-riparian.  I can't speak for Kansas, but here in AZ, if you poach a riparian tree, the po po gonna come get you.  But then again I'm pretty sure our ecosystems are a bit more fragile than . . . well basically almost everywhere else on the planet haha.

[jimmy]

Everything in my mind tells me not to respond to this, but I just can't help myself, I am the honest and outspoken type by nature.  Does anyone here REALLY live with the bare essentials, only using and possessing what they need for survival?  I'll answer that....NO.  That doesn't mean that wasting resources is OK.  But if you have access to the tree and want it for a bow, then cut the dang thing.  I can assure you, it has no feelings and you don't need to ask it.  Resources were put here for us to use, not the other way around.  This is getting dangerously close to political, God forbid.  But seriously dude, stop over anylizing it and just cut it, it's wood for crying out loud.  You can justify the whole bloody thing by fashioning it into a beautiful bow!

[WillS]

That's all fine, taking what you want and stuff anybody else, but what happens if the wood IS special to somebody?

There's a yew tree outside my front door.  I mean, so close that I see it every time I'm sitting in my front room.  It's just right there, and has some stunning bits that would make great bows.  I asked around the neighbours a while back to see if anybody would mind me cutting it down, and it turns out it was planted years and years ago by somebody in memory of a dead relative.  It's looked after by each generation who move into the house and it has a special meaning for everybody in the neighbourhood.

If I did what some of you are suggesting and just threw caution to the wind and did the most selfish, greedy thing and take whatever I wanted "because it's just WOOD, dude", that tree gets cut down with no thought to those who care about it.  What for?  Another bow.  Another bent stick to satisfy a personal hobby. 

I'd be outraged if somebody did it to my property, so I certainly won't be doing it to somebody else's and would hope most others on here who claim to be passionate about trees and the wood we use think the same way.

We can't always just take what we want.  Life doesn't work that way.

[dragonman]

Jimmy, how can you assure me or anyone else a tree doesnt feel?  thats your belief, a belief with no basis, or evidence is worth nothing...just an idea,.. I can assure you a tree does have feelings

[Pappy]

  By the way careful guys. 
   Pappy

[Pat B]

In the US each county courthouse has a public record of who the landowner would be. You should be able to get their address or even phone number. As a real estate broker I do it all the time.
 If you find a tree and it is legal to cut...and you can take care of it after harvest then why not cut it. I'm not saying be a hoarder but don't let a good piece(tree) of bow wood go up in smoke.   I very rarely cut bow wood any more unless I have a specific project because I have plenty of seasoned wood stored in my basement shop. I do still accept gifts though!