Author Topic: A great technique for establishing thickness.  (Read 11431 times)

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Offline Springbuck

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 12:38:48 pm »
     For me the easist way is to take the belly down 1 ring at a time. I never use a bandsaw anymore.

  This would be fine, but I almost always find myself working with saplings between 3and 5 inches across.  There are often so many rings visible, I'd have to scoop one out at a time with a gooseneck scraper.  ;D

Offline Springbuck

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 12:42:02 pm »
+1 Pappy. Facet a line and work down to it leaving a crown in the center then knifing the crown down.  Belt sander, drawknife, and SS scraper. Use my sense of touch to judge the taper.

 Done this a lot.  Can do it.  Gave it up for this method.

Comancheria:  I do this, but not always, and basically only when roughing out to drying thickness, like 1" or more.  You con't need an actual calipers; any spanner to measure thickness is fine.    Once I'm tillering, I listen to the wood.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2014, 12:45:05 pm »
  I second the facet method, I do it with the draw knife down each side and then remove the rings one by one down the center.

 This is what I do once I start actually working on the bow. Your method there is the method I use once I'm working on taper, or bringing down thickness to start floor tiller.

 What I'm describing is how I go from stave to blank, and then I start making a bow. 

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2014, 12:52:36 pm »
One of the greatest things about this craft is all the various ways different folks achieve the same end result. My process has changed often over the years and will again. I see or read about a particular method and try it if it sounds sane. If it works better than the old way, I adopt it. My tillering method is probably locked in for all intents and purposes simply because it works. For me.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2014, 01:05:30 pm »
yes well begun is a great starting point,,  :)

Offline Springbuck

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2014, 01:23:15 pm »
 Well, I'm not miffed, but a little surprised at how quickly this idea was dismissed.  Nobody tried it.  Nobody considered it, and it seems nobody gave it even a second thought.   That's a mistake, even for accomplished bowyers.

 I have been around, making bows and watching you guys make bows for 15 years.  I remember when Badger was kind of a new guy.    I appreciate everyone's expertise, but I have done, or did do every method you guys just mentioned, and the reason I posted this is because I found, after making a couple hundred bows, that this method is actually superior for following the grain and establishing a starting/roughed out thickness.  It has improved my success rate. 

 Now, you may not NEED it, and any of you might be better bowyers than I, but please consider that this MIGHT come in handy someday.  It might help a new guy get used to seeing how to follow grain on a stave that twists, then twists back, etc...    Can't hurt.

 

Offline Badger

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2014, 02:47:59 pm »
  Springbuck, I was thinking the same thing you posted just now, it did seem we dismissed it rather quickly. I think the reason it was dismissed is because a lot of us don't establish a thickness as much as we do a point where it starts to bend. In my case I take off one ring at a time on the belly becuase I find rings come off easier and it takes me less time to reduce a stave. When it starts to flex I have my thickness established. I have long respected your willingness to do new things and experiement we are a lot alike that way. I just think like all of us putting ideas out there that sometimes they fall flat. Not taking anything away from you at all. About 90% of my ideas fall flat, I usually end up rejecting them myself at somepoint. Stay at it!

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2014, 03:10:52 pm »
Sorry, Springbuck. You are right. I will go back and look it more closely. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2014, 03:13:41 pm »
Sounds like it will work just fine. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline bubby

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 04:20:30 pm »
Some of the guy's here reject all power tool's, some don't have any, some are set in their ways, nothing i can't see wrong with your method but personally, i don't have a drill press, wish i did😊, make alot of things i build easier, thanks for the idea and i'm sure it will get tried out
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
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Offline PatM

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2014, 07:41:22 pm »
Have you tried this with Elm?
 I just see no reason to connect the dots when I can get close much faster with a hatchet. Many times people come up with new ideas as a way around struggling with a technique that may be easier for others.
 I never measure the thickness anyway.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2014, 08:53:05 pm »
i apologize if I seemed dismissive ,, I just have never had that issue and didnt really understand your method,, thank you for sharing,,  :)

Offline Pappy

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 06:12:05 am »
Sorry also if it seemed I dismissed it as a bad way to do what you do , Just told you how I do it, seems like your method will work fine, just more trouble to me because I don't have a problem with the way I have been doing it. You have to remember that a lot of us has been doing this for a while and set in our way and shouldn't let it upset you when someone don't want to change and do it your way. Just saying.  ;) :) :) :)
  Pappy
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Offline Springbuck

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2014, 06:46:43 pm »
And again, I am not feeling hurt, and nobody owes me an apology or anything, but thanks for the replies.  I respect each of your knowledge and abilities.

Just to clarify a bit....  I started doing this primarily because i tend to screw bows up in the rough-out phase. Green elm tears out badly, I'm suddenly too thin on one side of a knot, propeller twist has me cutting too much off one side, not enough on the other, etc...Also, because when I'm teaching a local lad to make a bow, it creates an ordered step to move toward thickness tapering and floor tillering.

I got the idea watching a build-along on Stickbow.com, where a guy measured ELB thicknesses by drawing measured circles with a stencil on the side of his stave to establish thickness taper.  I flipped it around, but it's basically the same idea.

Badger: I am most often working with wood from small diameter trees because that is what is available to me.  I have followed rings on the belly, but usually I am looking at growth ring lines of a half split to start.  If I followed one ring down the middle I might end with a stave stave 1" thick on one end, and 2" thick on the other.

I am also oftern doing this with green or partly green wood.  This is how I get a stave prepped to 1" thick plus a handle, no muss no fuss so I can sclamp it to a board or wall stud in my garage to dry. sometimes I don't want to flex the wood either because I know it is too green, or I know it is too thick.

Bubby:  I think this method could be adapted to a jig and a saw.  You've seen a miter saw, with the stiffener on the back?  A very simple jig could be made to stop the saw 1" from where the back of the stave rests.

PatM: It works especially well on elm, and other stringy white woods.  red elm is so ragged when you split or machete or even draw knife it. Sometimes twist will wander 20 deg one way, then come back to center, and then the other way 10 deg., or a propeller twist will extend 30 deg on an otherwise beautiful stave.  I can correct that with heat, but only if the limb is fairly wide and flat.  On straight wood that isn"t lumpoy and knottt, i often chainsaw the staves, then drawknife to drying or starting dimensions.  Part of the deal is that the holes are drilled where the split wants to be, following the grain rotationally, without all the tear-out and wandering of a regular split.

Pappy; no problem.  It was mostly just in case anybody could see a use for it later.    One of the reasons i come here is to read your (youse-guyses) posts.  They stick in my head now and then, and when I hit a problem, i say, "I wonder if that thing Pappy was asking about two years ago, and then found an even better way, would work here.?"  And a lot of time it does.

I hope I diidn't put anybody too much on the defense.  I'm glad i found you all again after paleoplanet dropped off.   Merry Christmas!

mikekeswick

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Re: A great technique for establishing thickness.
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2014, 04:22:05 am »
I can picture your method but can't see why it's better/easier than using a hatchet and a gentle floor tiller. I just see potential for drilling through the side that is on table not exactly where I wanted.