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Author Topic: Check this out yall  (Read 19447 times)

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Offline toomanyknots

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Check this out yall
« on: July 26, 2014, 04:37:35 pm »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 04:44:50 pm »
It would be hard to believe it was that old just from the good condition of the linen whipping in my opinion.
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Crogacht

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 06:32:24 pm »
You'd be surprised what survives in the right conditions. If human tissue can survive thousands of years I'm sure an arrow could survive 600. It certainly looks VERY old.
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Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 07:26:50 pm »
This is an old story, been going round for years.  Not sure why they're bringing it up again now.

Looks modern to me.  Don't recall ever hearing/reading that linen binding was used - always silk.  Plus the leather insert under the nock is used commonly today.  Unless the thatched roof the arrow was lodged in (as the story goes) was in perfect condition and never repaired, just replaced over the years, those fletchings would be long gone.

Will wait for carbon dating, and fully prepared to be completely wrong, but currently convinced it's modern.  Not a fake, just a modern one lost some years ago and found again.
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 12:33:46 pm »
Quote from: WillS on July 26, 2014, 07:26:50 pm
This is an old story, been going round for years.  Not sure why they're bringing it up again now.

Looks modern to me.  Don't recall ever hearing/reading that linen binding was used - always silk.  Plus the leather insert under the nock is used commonly today.  Unless the thatched roof the arrow was lodged in (as the story goes) was in perfect condition and never repaired, just replaced over the years, those fletchings would be long gone.

Will wait for carbon dating, and fully prepared to be completely wrong, but currently convinced it's modern.  Not a fake, just a modern one lost some years ago and found again.

That's what I would think. It would make sense that the binding would look so new if it was some of that polyester-fiber blend thread.
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 12:42:02 pm »
What's funny is that Hector Cole released a fairly detailed document about this arrow years and years ago, with measurements and head specifications etc.  I mentioned this on the Facebook thread and got my wrist slapped for "making assumptions" so I'm not entirely sure what they're doing.  Hopefully as they say it'll go in front of the Craft Guild of Fletchers and they'll get a definitive reply and if not, then Leeds Armoury will date it. 

Isn't that nock end messy?  Looks like it was a rush job.  Almost makes sense for it to be genuine if it was made in a hurry along with thousands of others for livery use.
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Offline OTDEAN

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 01:46:59 pm »
Don't know why you find it hard to believe this might be real, wait for the carbon dating and see.
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Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 02:09:17 pm »
Cos it's around 600 years old and the fletchings are still there...

Like I said, might be genuine.  I'd be surprised but would love to be proven wrong!
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 02:29:26 pm »
I did a little (not more than that, really) and it appears if a professional thatching job is done with high quality thatching reeds, not straw, you can expect the roof to last about 60 years.  If that was the case, this 600 yr old thatched roof would have been replaced approximately 10 times. 

Granted, I am writing this on assumption that the arrow was found in the thatching, I don't know because I am at work and the audio cannot be turned on with this computer.  I didn't get to hear what was being said. 

Still, one loves a good mystery! 
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Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline OTDEAN

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 05:07:36 pm »
Well at 600 years old is not as old as a full set of birch arrows with feathers and a mongolian horn sinew bow that exists from the time of Genghis Khan.  Go figure.
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Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 05:56:22 pm »
Were they found sticking out of a roof, having been exposed to the weather and bacteria/insects for the whole time, or were they carefully looked after and preserved?  Go figure ;)
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Offline Crogacht

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2014, 07:02:48 pm »
Well, a quick google search shows duck decoys found with intact feathers 2000 years old. They were in a cave, so conditions were better than in a roof (I assume), but still, they're 3 or 4 times older.
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Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2014, 07:22:36 pm »
I think it's more down to location/situation than age.  Keep something in a cave, with reasonably consistent humidity, temperature and away from the elements and I'm sure even the most delicate natural materials will survive for a very long time.  Compare that to leaving something outside, and you'll get a much different result.

I mean, take an arrow you've just made and leave it outside somewhere for just 5 years.  I think it would look very similar to this one.
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Offline Crogacht

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2014, 08:23:38 pm »
Yeah, it's true. Was it literally just sticking out of a roof exposed to the elements?
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Offline WillS

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Re: Check this out yall
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2014, 08:27:55 pm »
Not entirely sure.  The story a year or so back was that somebody was renovating an old building, and when they pulled the thatch down there it was.  The story might change now though.

I don't know enough about thatched roofs to be able to say whether it would protect natural materials like wood and feather from the elements for 600 years or whether it would just rot away.
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