"Moon phase rings" ? in osage. anybody know?

[lukelawrence171]

i also found this article id you go to pg 473 4.2 it talks about what it has to do with compression strength still looking for something about lunar growth rings

http://www.howplantswork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/zurcher.pdf

[Jim Davis]

Well, here is a little science for those willing to yield to logic and reason:

http://www.howplantswork.com/2009/08/16/does-the-moon-affect-plants-part-3-gravitational-effects/

Wives tale tellers beware.

[Badger]

  Jim, I think that is slightly different. I admit I have never given it any thought before but affecting ground water level is different than affecting the tree itself as suggested in the article. It may not have any affect on ground water either for that matter.

[SLIMBOB]

I too have done some reading on this. Most things written are based on less than scientific evidence. Having said that, it seems as though throughout history and across many cultures certain practices were strongly tied to the moon phases. I can't cite the study, but certain artisans who make wooden musical instruments harvest the wood for these only at specific times tied to moon phases believing that the wood has a different resonance based on the moon phase in which it is harvested. Some beliefs of this type have been shown to actually have some merit. The woods density has been shown to be higher when cut at certain times over others.  How this relates to lunar rings is speculation, but the rings seem to be layed down in many cases in an organized fashion.  As though a cycle of some type is at play.  The moon phase seems to be a reasonable explanation to me.

[Badger]

  Ground water can only be affected if hydraulicaly connected to the ocean so only near coastal regions. That does make sense.

[TRACY]

Looking at your pic and diagram I see a color difference and a boundary where the arrows are. I think that is more of an environmental factor affecting growth than lunar phases.

My question is this; which phase or phases are responsible for visible lunar rings during the growing months?

New moon, full moon, or somewhere in between? Waxing or waning?

I realize that the moon affects water and those things made of water such as animals. I'm just not sure how moon phases(short time frame) can have such a large visible impact on annual growth rings. Seems like you would need to examine a cross section of multiple growth rings under the microscope and compare moon phase dates for each particular year with changes within the annual growth rings.

It is an interesting concept and would like to know more about it. I'm not convinced that it has any value to the quality of wood for bows.

Tracy

[Crogacht]

The difference between low and high tide where I live is about 4 metres. I know it is less in some places and a lot more in others.

Logic seems to tell me that if something the size of the moon influences something the size of the ocean by a mere 4 metres, and the amount of water in a tree by comparison is who-knows-how-much less than the ocean, it makes sense that the effect would be nil or non existent.

I somewhat agree that a full moon has an effect on animals, but is there evidence that this is because of the water content in their bodies? Seems like a massive increase in light during nighttime would probably have more of an effect than some kind of gravitational pull on H2O molecules... and even if its true, you'd have to prove how that affects behaviour in animals, on a biological level.

Reading SLIMBOB's post kind of makes me think the moon DOES affect trees and animals, but maybe it's the light? It is afterall SUN light, the same as what a plant gets during the day.

If you had extra sunlight during the night with which to lay down wood, at whatever rate, wouldn't that explain it?

[PatM]

The tree clearly has to basically "paint" those micro-layers down and there has to be something that governs what separates each one into a tiny replica of a full yearly ring. The tree doesn't just lay down an amorphous blob of wood.
 The number of those rings corresponds to moon cycles to a far more precise degree than any other thing that is likely to cause that. They don't show up as   "daily rings" or rings of high rainfall or sunny days.
 Calculate the length of your growing season and then count those rings and see how accurately the count reflects the months.
 Bamboo harvesters note the wildly fluctuating moisture levels in a culm over the various phases of the moon.

[mikekeswick]

In our 'enlightened age' we are very quick to dismiss things that have been known about for an awfully long time.
More or less everything on this planet is affected by the moon phases. Plants, animals, fish, the oceans, rivers, groundwater and us.
It's common sense if you think about it logically.

[lukelawrence171]

Looking at your pic and diagram I see a color difference and a boundary where the arrows are. I think that is more of an environmental factor affecting growth than lunar phases.

My question is this; which phase or phases are responsible for visible lunar rings during the growing months?

New moon, full moon, or somewhere in between? Waxing or waning?

I realize that the moon affects water and those things made of water such as animals. I'm just not sure how moon phases(short time frame) can have such a large visible impact on annual growth rings. Seems like you would need to examine a cross section of multiple growth rings under the microscope and compare moon phase dates for each particular year with changes within the annual growth rings.

It is an interesting concept and would like to know more about it. I'm not convinced that it has any value to the quality of wood for bows.

Tracy

the reason your seeing  color difference between the boundary and the arrows are  is because there is some early wood growth that i haven't scrapes away yet and the stuff to the left is one ring of late wood

So whats that between them ? 

[Poggins]

I guess I'll throw my pebble into the pool .

I've cut a lot of osage, a lot in one river bottom .
I have cut several in one small lactation that were close to the same age ( counted growth rings) and have had at least one or two with very large amounts of lunar rings , trees within a few yards had little or no lunar rings , also ring density veryied in the trees , my best guess would be genetics , similar to animals . Like a runt of the litter only opposit or a catfish that grows extrimaly fast ( the big blue cat that was caught a few years ago that everyone guessed at being well over fifty and when it died they determined was under twenty .

Just my two cents .

[George Tsoukalas]

I've seen that on osage. Looks like early wood to me. I take a scraper to it and it is gone. Jawge

[Badger]

       Someoene gave me another hypothisis to look at. Different insects are active at different phases of the moon. Insects will often single out a tree. When stressed by insects some trees and plants respond by putting out chemicals of thier own. Very hard to prove a correlation to these rings and the moon.

[SLIMBOB]

Careful George, I made that same observation the other day and I was dragged to the wood shed.  I still think you are right.

[blackhawk]

I'm chuckling at some of the wild n crazy "speculations" being thrown out here...my two cents...who gives a shiite ..if they are in the stave then cool..if they are not then that's cool too..its osage..its all good,and just make the damn bow     

Sounds like some of yins guys are bored n got nuttin better to do but let your brains n mouths run wild..lol  .... If your bored get off here n go make a bow