First self bow stave, design, and general questions

[PrimalInstinct]

Hey guys, I decided to take up building a self bow so i started educating myself by reading great sites like this one as well as "The Traditional Bowyers Bible pt1". I understand that theoretically understanding this and actually doing it will be two different tasks but I like to take things head-on and learn from it so I think im ready.

QUESTION 1 - Tools?
As for tools I got a

• hatchet
• wood rasps
• draw knife
• Hand saw
• cabinet scrapers

• Anything else???

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QUESTION 2 - Knot in stave?
I bought this Osage Orange stave that measures about 64" but it has this knot towards the end. I understand knots are difficult for a beginner to work with so I have to ask, what are my options really? Here is the eBay listing if u want to see some pictures of the stave.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231266423006?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I want to ask, the knot is roughly a foot down and if I cut below the knot and shorten my bow, will i bypass the knot safely? If so, is a 50 - 52" bow ok for a person with a 5.4ft wingspan (im 5'11")?

I figure my draw length is about 26.5 so IF i dont mess anything up, 52" SHOULD be about right, RIGHT??

If im wrong about any of the above, do you suggest I work around the knot? If so, how would i go  about this becuase its so close to the edge? would I adjust my center line to symmetrically work for the side with the knot?


QUESTION 3 - Growth rings, How deep can i go?
With all this knowledge about ring-porous hardwoods, diffuse porous hardwoods, and conifers I have now, I feel like I might know just enough to be dangerous. So my stave is an Osage Orange and if you take a look at the pictures, there is a LOT of earlywood up at the top of the stave. Im looking to make a nice, dense bow that will last a while (assuming all goes well) so I want to go lower in the heartwood and use the thick layers of latewood down there. Is that ok? Working your way up from the lowest growth ring, up to 11 or 13th growth ring. Will i be leaving myself enough depth to work with??

QUESTION 4

Ive chosen to do a flat bow design with Pyramid limbs. Its seems the simplest for a beginner as well as the most durable. It looks like its not gonna bend to great but if i can make it thick enough (refer to question 3) then it shouldnt be a problem right? I would like some input from you experienced fellaz out there on this one.


I really appreciate and knowledge and insight you guys provide. Thanks a lot for helpin a noob into the game

[Pat B]

Your tool kit is fine. You could get other tools but it is not necessary.
 That knot in the end can be eliminated when you lay out the bow.
As far as the rings go, I'd go down to that one wider ring one or 2 down. Take each ring above it off carefully and leave a small island around any knots or pins. You can remove these islands later with a more gingerly approach and a scraper. If you can't get that ring cleanly go to the next ring you can expose cleanly.
A pyramid design will work fine. Make it 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" wide at the fades and taper to 1/2" or slightly wider tips for now. You can reduce them later.  I make my bows symmetrical with the center of the 4" handle being the center of the bow and 1 1/2" to 2" fades.
 If we didn't help newbies out there wouldn't be anyone to make fun of.     just kiddin'. 

[George Tsoukalas]

1) Yes, that's good. There is a list of tools on my site. Those are the ones I like to use. I recommend no power tools until you have made a few. They take off too much too fast.
You may want to add a shavehook or curved scraper for those hard to reach rings.

2) Wood needs to be left wide around knots. Let the wood swirl around it. I like the knot to be at the same growth ring as the wood on the back.
52" too short. Double your draw and add 20% for a minimum. So 62" minimum for a length. Leave the stave 64" and work the knot.

3) Yes you can go into an inner heartwood ring.

4) Pyramid is fine. Just rememebr what I said about leaving extra wood around the knot.

Here is my site.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

Have fun and take your time.

Be the tortoise and not the hare.

Jawge

[PrimalInstinct]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the quick responses.


Pat B.. so are you saying to go even lower than I originally wanted to? If so, thats awesome bc thats exacrtly what i wanted to do but I fear depth wont be enough if i do that from the get-go. What u think?

George, If i leave the knot in, how do i find my new centerline? I guess i could leave the center line the same and just have a bulge out of the side of bow to give it "character" but being that the knot is so far left, it would make for huge bulge. Is that ok?

[George Tsoukalas]

Mark your center line down the middle following the lateral grain. Look closely and you will see lines running from one end of the stave to the other. Find the grain line, follow it down the middle, mark with the pencil and pick it up on the other side of the knot.
Check this.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/osage.html

Then once you have done that you can measure your width on either side of the line.

And this.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/layout.html

Jawge

[Pat B]

No, I'm talking a few rings down from the back. From the end shot it looks like portions from one ring on the edges of the stave, then a thin ring then a thicker one. I'd use that one.

[DarkSoul]

Your tools are fine. No need to invest in more tools right away.
Please do NOT cut that stave down! 64" is a good length for your draw length. A beginner should not even consider making a bow that is twice it's draw length. Number two beginners mistake is making the bow too short or too narrow. (Number one is poor wood selection.)
That knot won't be a problem. It's on the edge of the stave and will fall off when you lay out the design.
You could go down another few rings into the heartwood, but I personally think this is overrated. Even thin osage rings, with a lot of earlywood, make a fine back. It's likely that the seller of the stave was not too fuzzy about following one ring when he removed the sapwood. So it's good to go down one or a few rings. But there is really no need to remove ten rings to get down to one ring that has marginally more latewood.

Remember that this wood is green: freshly cut less than a month ago! You cannot finish a bow before the wood has thoroughly dried. You can rough out the bow this week, but then you must dry it for at least another month indoors before you start tillering it. Since I presume this will be your first bow, I highly, HIGHLY, recommend you to start working on a board. Buy one (it's much cheaper than an osage stave, easily accessible and ready to work with) and learn how to use your tools and how to tiller a bow. The osage bow will be thankful later on.